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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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show number 77 for the ninth of april

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2010 Richard Saunders here from Sydney

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Australia what a mixed bag we have for

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you this week on the show we're going to

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kick off with a speech given by our

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executive officer in the Australian

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skeptics and the editor of the skeptic

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magazine the skeptic Tim mendham now

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this was recorded at the last Sydney

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skeptics in the pub with dr. H II

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followed by her answer give and then Tim

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mendham a little bit of news and

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information along with that after that

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raid she comes back with dr. ray cheer

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apports looking at the latest goings on

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with that wacky crazy zany bunch at the

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Australian vaccination network and the

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equally wacky and zany bunch at

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homeopathy Plus after that it's Iran sir

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give back again with a grain of salt

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he's going to be talking to country

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nurse wendy whelan about an amazing

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success rate in vaccination and then to

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wrap the show up Kylie Sturgis will

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interview crispy and Jago now he's the

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guy he's the guy from the UK who did

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those fantastic our simpsons cards of

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famous skeptics well worth a listen so

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sit back grab that ginger beer and enjoy

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so I'm going to give you a couple of

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minutes of the news and events that have

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been happening in the last month and

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then I'll introduce our speaker and Tim

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will speak for about 20 minutes Tim yeah

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three minutes great and what 17 minutes

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of questions here ok Iran's Tommy I have

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to put this on my that better now you

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can't hear me

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can you hear me now can you hear me now

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can anyone hear me now can you guys

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sitting up the back in the big like

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chairs pimmy okay alright so those of

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you who don't know we have a segment on

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2 GB on Saturday nights it's usually

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myself and Richard Saunders who's not

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here tonight but last week it was with

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dr. Chrissy Wilson who I introduced

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earlier 2gb is the hot recently the

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ratings came out and at the highest

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rating am station or in fact the highest

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rating station in Sydney we do a segment

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usually around ten-thirty on Saturday

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night so I'm not quite sure how many

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people are listening at that time of

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night but um if you want to hear the

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podcast of that it's up on the website

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Australian skeptics calm that I you or

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scare pics.com to the air and also I

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just wanted to update you on Tam

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Australia for those of you who don't

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know we're hosting town Australia this

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year November 26 to 28 at the sydney

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masonic center which is there literally

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a block away we will have the launch of

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the website very very soon we've

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announced the first round of speakers

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they are the likes of james randi the

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entire cast from the skeptics guide to

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the universe dr. Eugenie Scott from cfi

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Simon thing is coming who else Iran is

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DJ Grothe George Rob so are we Brian

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downing from skebawn calm this was just

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the first round of speakers work that

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we've announced there will be lots and

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lots more when we launch the website

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they'll also be information about how

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you can apply to be a part of town so

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we're going to make this apart for the

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whole community to get involved it's not

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just going to be the big guns but these

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guys have been announced now because we

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have to arrange ahead of time to get

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them here from England or from America

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but there's going to be lots and lots of

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lots more speakers panels workshops all

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kinds of stuff

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so we'll keep you informed as to when we

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launched the website when that happens

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you can then apply to become involved

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and we're also looking for volunteers

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and stuff so keep your eye out on

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skeptics combinar you or twitter if you

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don't follow me on twitter I'm dr.

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Richie I'll keep you updated or you can

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follow up Australian skeptics April the

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first sorry April the 10th to the 16th

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is world homeopathy awareness week and

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now we were doing it works better we

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want to make people aware that

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homeopathy there's nothing in it or

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otherwise known as bollocks I'm already

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starting to organize some coverage I've

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written a couple of blog posts which are

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going to be published on the 16th I'm

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getting some churros interested in doing

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some stuff thank you sorry on the tenth

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of April if you're on twitter the

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hashtag is going to be wh aw world

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homeopathy awareness week but we're also

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going to have a campaign running at the

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same time to demonstrate to people that

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it's just water so if you want to keep

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involved find me on Twitter find me on

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Facebook or check our website skeptics

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com delay you and before I hand over to

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piece of news okay but I haven't

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finished it at the moment I don't know

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what time it is in London James is it

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almost nine-thirty quarter past eight in

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the morning okay it's early in the

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morning on Thursday in London at

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nine-thirty a.m. london time this

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morning Simon Singh will be appearing in

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court to receive the fight their

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findings for whether he is allowed to

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appeal the decision where the BCA in the

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British Chiropractic Association sued

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him for defamation for calling some of

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their practices bogus that's going to be

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handed down today there are big

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implications for the futures of libel

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laws in the UK the UK is known as a

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place to what is called libel tourism

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whereby people come from all over the

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world to sue people there because it's a

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very expensive process and it takes a

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long time and essentially if you get

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sued for libel in the UK you either hold

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your hands up and say okay I'm sorry or

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it's going to cost you a lot of money

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it's already cost Simon seeing a hundred

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thousand pounds he thinks it's going to

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cost him a million bucks but he's going

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to fight it so if you haven't signed the

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petition to change libel in the UK

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please head to sense about science org

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or you can just search for on google and

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we hope that in about an hour and 42

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hours will know the decision for whether

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he's allowed to appeal so I'm going to

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hand over to around forget the president

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just a quick piece of very important

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news the avian has recently managed to

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collect enough money or enough pledges

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of money to continue operations emerald

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Ori announced that she will resign as

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president we're not sure exactly what

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was supposed to be advertised but they

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decided to advertise in the Sydney's

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child magazine and the equivalents in

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Canberra no Melbourne and Brisbane

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Sydney Melbourne and Brisbane it's a

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Sydney's child Melbourne child and

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Brisbane child are all magazines that

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are distributed freely in places like

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baby shops and daycare centers and young

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parents read them a lot so for the avn

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to advertise in those magazines ow could

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be quite bad so the avn now have a bit

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of money they want to advertise and we

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are happy to tell you that today they

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were knocked back we were we were going

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to do something about it but the

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publisher decided basically of their own

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accord that they don't want to deal with

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the avian and good on them for doing

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can people hear me yes thank you that's

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a shame okay my name is Tim mendham I'm

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the executive officer of Australian

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skeptics and probably with about one

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other person in this room I've been

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involved with a skeptic since it's very

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start the other person is Ian brush down

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there actually right now that was

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actually 30 years ago and I know you're

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saying oh you look so young how do you

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say I actually joined the skeptics when

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I was five years old I wish in 1980

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which is a farewell ago James Randi came

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to Australia at the bequest without the

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request sorry at the request of dick

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smith and I performing some tests on

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water diviners dowsers that sort of

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thing and d smith at the time said well

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you know we'd like to get people

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together who have this sort of similar

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approach to pseudoscience the paranormal

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who are equally skeptical and to be nice

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to form an association wouldn't it in

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Melbourne a lawyer named Mark Plummer

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instantly put his hand up and so we'll

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start this organization and we'll call

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it Australian skeptics and that is over

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though dick smith de comer patron of it

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as Phillip Adams at the time and the

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Sydney branch started up pretty soon

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after Barry Williams who was seen this

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same sort of information about Dick

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Smith but his hands up and said if he

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ever sort of want to start something up

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here i'll begin anyone who volunteers

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knows what's that like you get become

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something the main person in it Barry

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who I know knew at that time because I'm

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a journalist editor and he was a an

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exhibitionist asked me if I was

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interested in joining I said yes so we

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had a very first committee meeting in

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the US Department of Commerce and we

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drink their beer quite a lot which is

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very nice actually for them to pay for

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it so that was in nineteen eighty

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nineteen eighty-one the Melbourne

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committee was the the main bunch they

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were they they were the powerhouse of

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the skeptics at the time

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and anyone who knew Mike plumber at the

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time it's written that he was a closest

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thing to a perpetual motion machine

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you've ever seen my plumber had the

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wonderful habit of phoning up about two

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o'clock in the morning all the time it's

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like I've got an idea and he especially

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after while he went to America and he

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still did actually yet to try to explain

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to him there's a time difference between

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new york and australia and liver month

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he never knew they worked in a magazine

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this is a little bit of potted history

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of where the skeptics sort of promoted

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themselves and i'll make some comments

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later on about how this has developed

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and how it changes everything very first

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issue was a tabloid appropriately these

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as rare as they can't touch it right

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this is ver honestly there are not many

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copies of this around it's called the

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skeptic and if anyone who knew at the

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time a magazine called The Skeptical

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Inquirer which was the American

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equivalent I have exactly the same

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typeface on the skeptic so some of the

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pair of scissors just cut that out and

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stuck it down and that's why the skeptic

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looked like that actually another common

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other spelling of skip think I don't

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think that was quite the same but

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certainly the look of it and this was a

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massive four pages not a lot in there

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but what was in there is interesting to

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look back on it as to what was the main

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concerns at the time right what was

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really in sort of buggy as the time and

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in here is skeptics test psychic

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surgeons and anything when tremendous

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psychic so just keep used to put the

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hands in your guts and pull out chicken

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00:11:59,610 --> 00:11:57,910
livers right and say look up here with

271
00:12:01,830 --> 00:11:59,620
you have cancer etc a lot of happy used

272
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:01,840
to happen a lot in the Philippines Doris

273
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:04,510
Stokes wrong says the police that was a

274
00:12:08,670 --> 00:12:06,430
big story and Perth was going to be

275
00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:08,680
inundated with a a tidal wave according

276
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:10,660
to a psychic and the skeptics where he

277
00:12:14,610 --> 00:12:13,210
happily pointed out that it wasn't it's

278
00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:14,620
still there and it hasn't been gone ok

279
00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:16,990
this is a plastic bag in that as I say

280
00:12:23,369 --> 00:12:19,930
very red decided not to do the four-page

281
00:12:25,979 --> 00:12:23,379
tabloid after a while and the next issue

282
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:25,989
was a more modest that of a four is

283
00:12:32,219 --> 00:12:28,720
about to at sixteen pages i think hand

284
00:12:33,929 --> 00:12:32,229
typed stop down on a bit of art board

285
00:12:36,119 --> 00:12:33,939
and then printed up learned she looks

286
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:36,129
like ass photocopied right a lot of the

287
00:12:41,069 --> 00:12:37,839
information came from the Americans and

288
00:12:43,019 --> 00:12:41,079
that's the way it worked lo and behold

289
00:12:44,099 --> 00:12:43,029
my plumber got the job of working with

290
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:44,109
the Americans so what was then called

291
00:12:48,809 --> 00:12:47,289
side cop it's now called CSI he was

292
00:12:50,789 --> 00:12:48,819
brought over there is executive director

293
00:12:53,159 --> 00:12:50,799
for a while because they no one had the

294
00:12:55,469 --> 00:12:53,169
energy of that plumber right and so they

295
00:12:56,309 --> 00:12:55,479
won't him there one of the Australian so

296
00:12:58,729 --> 00:12:56,319
he was one of the first of the

297
00:13:00,929 --> 00:12:58,739
Australian sort of invasions of America

298
00:13:02,579 --> 00:13:00,939
no one in Melbourne really wanted to

299
00:13:04,349 --> 00:13:02,589
take over the role so it passed the

300
00:13:07,589 --> 00:13:04,359
National Committee at that time pastor

301
00:13:10,529 --> 00:13:07,599
Sydney and that was buried and myself

302
00:13:12,239 --> 00:13:10,539
and a bunch of others and me because I

303
00:13:13,859 --> 00:13:12,249
was not looking at the time I became

304
00:13:16,979 --> 00:13:13,869
secretary treasurer and editor of the

305
00:13:19,139 --> 00:13:16,989
magazine at the time and I did that for

306
00:13:20,369 --> 00:13:19,149
about five years okay and it's a lot of

307
00:13:22,769 --> 00:13:20,379
work that we actually went out and

308
00:13:23,819 --> 00:13:22,779
bought a computer this was a little

309
00:13:25,379 --> 00:13:23,829
break through this with technology

310
00:13:27,449 --> 00:13:25,389
breakthrough for the skeptics we bought

311
00:13:28,799 --> 00:13:27,459
a mac plus and instead of being hand

312
00:13:31,379 --> 00:13:28,809
typed and stuck down a bits of paper

313
00:13:33,809 --> 00:13:31,389
will I put it on a mac plus and a broke

314
00:13:35,249 --> 00:13:33,819
down every five minutes right we push

315
00:13:36,869 --> 00:13:35,259
the boundaries of Technology and anyone

316
00:13:39,029 --> 00:13:36,879
knows a Mac you had this little bond

317
00:13:40,979 --> 00:13:39,039
that used to come up right just as you

318
00:13:43,619 --> 00:13:40,989
were about to save the information like

319
00:13:44,909 --> 00:13:43,629
16 pages and whammy would go down you've

320
00:13:46,409 --> 00:13:44,919
got to do the whole lot all over again

321
00:13:47,939 --> 00:13:46,419
and made it very popular with us

322
00:13:49,319 --> 00:13:47,949
actually especially the way you couldn't

323
00:13:51,509 --> 00:13:49,329
do a headline across the whole top of a

324
00:13:53,489 --> 00:13:51,519
page get to do it in two halves and try

325
00:13:56,129 --> 00:13:53,499
and make it fit never did these space

326
00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:56,139
between the two okay next major

327
00:14:00,190 --> 00:13:58,490
breakthrough

328
00:14:05,170 --> 00:14:00,200
I'll explain all the significance of

329
00:14:10,990 --> 00:14:05,180
this later on color as in a bit of

330
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:11,000
colored paper right and picture this

331
00:14:15,220 --> 00:14:12,410
picture for those who can see it was

332
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:15,230
actually me cobbling together headlines

333
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:18,410
from newspapers right and then trying to

334
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:19,490
photocopier there's a lot of

335
00:14:24,220 --> 00:14:22,130
photocopying down in those days just to

336
00:14:26,260 --> 00:14:24,230
go back to the first issues here the

337
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:26,270
second issue we had here the one that

338
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:27,890
came into Melbourne the second issue and

339
00:14:34,180 --> 00:14:30,170
main headline here is about levitating

340
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:34,190
meditators bit this was this was a

341
00:14:39,100 --> 00:14:37,010
short-lived trend most of Transcendental

342
00:14:40,410 --> 00:14:39,110
Meditation people they stood around yeah

343
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:40,420
the Maharishi said a bunch of

344
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:42,320
Transcendental Meditation people Rick

345
00:14:46,810 --> 00:14:44,930
and their followers could fly which is

346
00:14:48,010 --> 00:14:46,820
pretty cool right and they river had

347
00:14:51,460 --> 00:14:48,020
these photos of their people in the

348
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:51,470
inner in a lotus position flying so we

349
00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:52,850
said fine what was waiting for the big

350
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:54,350
unveiling of this thing and finally we

351
00:14:59,530 --> 00:14:57,770
saw these meditators TM people setting

352
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,540
other on their owner cushion and they

353
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:01,760
flew by flexing their legs and kind of

354
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:03,170
bounced up from a lotus position I

355
00:15:06,790 --> 00:15:05,209
must've got that high actually right had

356
00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:06,800
a ruined their hips I'm sure their legs

357
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:08,180
but that was there with what they claim

358
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:11,230
is flying that was a big story in 1980

359
00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:13,970
when I went to this issue the first

360
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:16,550
desktop the beach story was hidden rocks

361
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:19,370
energy polarizer right and technology

362
00:15:22,569 --> 00:15:20,810
thing to make a car run better by

363
00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:22,579
catching more supposedly a battery to

364
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:24,860
the engine right it didn't work and

365
00:15:29,889 --> 00:15:26,690
actually help to make Peter rock blues

366
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:29,899
is Holden sponsorship this wonderful

367
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:32,570
first color issue very impressive I was

368
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:34,790
also in about nineteen eighty-eight the

369
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:37,430
big story here was police use of

370
00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:39,110
psychics

371
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:41,810
the Nullarbor UFO even remembers that a

372
00:15:45,790 --> 00:15:43,730
family was at a kidnapped across the

373
00:15:48,190 --> 00:15:45,800
Nullarbor a woman and her three rather

374
00:15:50,290 --> 00:15:48,200
grotesque sons and they reckon they were

375
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:50,300
hit by UFO on top that was also to UFO

376
00:15:54,819 --> 00:15:52,130
dust everywhere and the other store is

377
00:15:58,150 --> 00:15:54,829
Carlos hopes they can be able to leave

378
00:15:59,860 --> 00:15:58,160
Carlos remember the karl james randi was

379
00:16:03,069 --> 00:15:59,870
out here visiting and there was a

380
00:16:05,380 --> 00:16:03,079
visiting psychic man Carlos who was a

381
00:16:07,329 --> 00:16:05,390
bit of a semi mystic Mexican mixture of

382
00:16:10,150 --> 00:16:07,339
all sorts of things did you shower the

383
00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:10,160
Opera House 60 minutes to the program on

384
00:16:14,139 --> 00:16:12,380
him turn it to be a total hoax that

385
00:16:15,910 --> 00:16:14,149
James Randi had set up Carlos as a

386
00:16:17,769 --> 00:16:15,920
friend of his pretended to be a psychic

387
00:16:19,210 --> 00:16:17,779
it was basically trying to point out

388
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:19,220
that the media were a bunch of gullible

389
00:16:23,319 --> 00:16:22,190
fools the media instantly fell for it

390
00:16:27,490 --> 00:16:23,329
and said no and asked him are you a

391
00:16:29,319 --> 00:16:27,500
house they intimate and close ok good it

392
00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:29,329
all George [\h__\h] was the only one who

393
00:16:32,740 --> 00:16:30,700
did come close he actually also

394
00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:32,750
interviewed a fellow from the skeptics

395
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,310
named Harriet what's who pointed out how

396
00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:36,079
to do is stopping the pulse and that

397
00:16:39,190 --> 00:16:37,730
sort of stuff right but if mostest

398
00:16:41,259 --> 00:16:39,200
gettys didn't there was a hope so it was

399
00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:41,269
a world kept secret I didn't know it was

400
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:43,070
a house for any few people deal was

401
00:16:46,750 --> 00:16:44,570
revealed to me about 15 minutes before

402
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:46,760
the show 60 minutes went away their

403
00:16:50,439 --> 00:16:48,860
second show and then basically saying

404
00:16:53,439 --> 00:16:50,449
that media never asked you to the hopes

405
00:16:55,780 --> 00:16:53,449
they took his [\h__\h] hold line and

406
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,790
sinker and and then I finally revealed

407
00:16:59,860 --> 00:16:57,680
their work was pretty upset so how dare

408
00:17:02,590 --> 00:16:59,870
you feel the media just basically

409
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:02,600
showing how he is lydia's so Randy was

410
00:17:06,340 --> 00:17:04,370
out to you initially to comment how

411
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:06,350
terrible this Carlos was and then to

412
00:17:13,809 --> 00:17:10,780
actually really built is one of us okay

413
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:13,819
now these publications are a long way

414
00:17:21,669 --> 00:17:17,360
from this which is where we are today in

415
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:21,679
our 30th year now this is the second

416
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:23,809
oldest skeptic magazine third eyelid

417
00:17:27,970 --> 00:17:25,250
skeptic magazine second I'll skeptic

418
00:17:29,950 --> 00:17:27,980
magazine in the world 30 years is pretty

419
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:29,960
damn good we are the third oldest

420
00:17:34,539 --> 00:17:32,330
skeptical organization in the world to

421
00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:34,549
psych up in the Brits I think there are

422
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:36,020
skipping older sections everywhere

423
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:38,210
Bernie know we have come a long way we

424
00:17:41,140 --> 00:17:39,770
are still in existence we have a

425
00:17:42,490 --> 00:17:41,150
magazine like this subscriptions

426
00:17:46,659 --> 00:17:42,500
available your hardcopy you're Peter

427
00:17:50,850 --> 00:17:46,669
you've just come see me afterwards to

428
00:17:55,710 --> 00:17:52,860
we put out a couple of books during the

429
00:17:57,630 --> 00:17:55,720
80s our first book was on creationism I

430
00:17:59,970 --> 00:17:57,640
don't know who design the cover but

431
00:18:02,520 --> 00:17:59,980
something with a bad case of vertigo i

432
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:02,530
think it was creationism an australian

433
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:03,970
prospective there's a lot of looking at

434
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:05,440
the arguments of creationists and our

435
00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:07,450
responses to them couldn't buy some of

436
00:18:11,460 --> 00:18:08,980
you might know Martin bridge stock and

437
00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:11,470
Kane Smith and it was that book that

438
00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:13,900
actually allowed them to be the first

439
00:18:17,789 --> 00:18:15,460
life members of Australian skeptics that

440
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:17,799
we thanked him for doing that book that

441
00:18:22,350 --> 00:18:19,890
became life members the first ones

442
00:18:25,230 --> 00:18:22,360
camera skeptics who are still going as

443
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:25,240
well collated a number of articles which

444
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:26,650
they put out a book called skeptical

445
00:18:31,710 --> 00:18:29,200
sorry sold out sold out about 20 years

446
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,720
ago and hasn't been a reprint having a

447
00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:33,280
hollow little articles like a page and a

448
00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:34,600
half similar to this sort of stuff you

449
00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:36,460
get on the website now looking at

450
00:18:40,620 --> 00:18:38,230
different topics the interesting thing

451
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:40,630
is the range of topics that are here and

452
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:42,130
the range of topics that were of

453
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:44,290
interest to the skeptics then and the

454
00:18:47,789 --> 00:18:45,610
range of topics that are interest to the

455
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:47,799
skeptics now there's two alternative

456
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:50,650
medicine stories in there don't get this

457
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:52,570
tell me about 20-odd years ago one of

458
00:18:58,500 --> 00:18:55,570
the stories is on chiropractic and the

459
00:19:01,169 --> 00:18:58,510
other one is on aromatherapy right now

460
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:01,179
in most of those magazines you go back

461
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:03,730
and look at them and the number of all

462
00:19:09,180 --> 00:19:06,910
med stuff is very little you get psychic

463
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:09,190
surgery you get a lot of faith healing

464
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:11,650
you think all that alternative medicine

465
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:15,070
he had a few fries things we are not the

466
00:19:19,710 --> 00:19:17,650
coverage and there was not the media

467
00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:19,720
coverage of what we now regard as ought

468
00:19:24,130 --> 00:19:21,260
met

469
00:19:26,470 --> 00:19:24,140
that has developed and me after my stint

470
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:26,480
as editor treasurer and secretary and I

471
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:29,120
bet he died doing it I can finally say

472
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:30,950
actually had to go out and earn a living

473
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:32,570
as well which tended to take me away be

474
00:19:35,890 --> 00:19:34,430
from the full-time skepticism but I was

475
00:19:38,140 --> 00:19:35,900
always interested always involved in a

476
00:19:39,820 --> 00:19:38,150
bit on the fringes last year I came back

477
00:19:41,980 --> 00:19:39,830
on board and a full-time capacity as

478
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:41,990
executive officer thank you guys really

479
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:43,490
loving it right it's absolutely

480
00:19:46,990 --> 00:19:45,470
fantastic but the most important thing

481
00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:47,000
is what I've seen changed now this is

482
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:48,710
like 30 years and I've got the same

483
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:51,770
thing is amazing changes when we first

484
00:19:57,340 --> 00:19:54,170
started skepticism was our dirty little

485
00:19:58,690 --> 00:19:57,350
secret in the same way as atheism was a

486
00:20:01,030 --> 00:19:58,700
dirty little secret you didn't want to

487
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:01,040
raise it at dinner parties you see her

488
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:02,450
the Tim mentioned you know song about

489
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:03,890
that it was worse than that right you

490
00:20:07,150 --> 00:20:05,030
did were raised it at all because you

491
00:20:08,650 --> 00:20:07,160
were just scored upon how dare you be a

492
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:08,660
spoil sport you sort of kind around

493
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:10,970
Cyprus cryptic I'm scared to grow and

494
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:13,790
you just didn't want to say it suddenly

495
00:20:17,980 --> 00:20:16,130
in that intervening period in the same

496
00:20:20,890 --> 00:20:17,990
way as atheism has come out of the

497
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,900
closet skepticism has also come out of

498
00:20:24,790 --> 00:20:23,120
the closet the summer you could say we

499
00:20:26,860 --> 00:20:24,800
have meetings like this and the old days

500
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:26,870
we used to do media interviews are you

501
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:29,030
regularly I so doing a lot and you

502
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,710
really here the first thing they'd say

503
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:32,960
to you the radio presenter we gotta have

504
00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:34,970
a bit of fun with it right you think

505
00:20:40,090 --> 00:20:37,220
that [\h__\h] I don't want to be fun this is

506
00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:40,100
serious right but I used to have a ubs

507
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:41,750
at the end of a radio program might they

508
00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:43,250
have the lost dog story at the end of

509
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:45,800
the news right and you feel terrible

510
00:20:49,990 --> 00:20:48,290
they always ask you always guaranteed

511
00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:50,000
but do the skeptics believe you

512
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:52,910
themselves and you say congratulations

513
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:54,110
you're the one meanest person to ask

514
00:20:57,940 --> 00:20:56,330
that question right you try to encourage

515
00:20:59,420 --> 00:20:57,950
the media but the media we're a pain in

516
00:21:03,440 --> 00:20:59,430
the backside

517
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:03,450
it has changed some media still regard

518
00:21:07,130 --> 00:21:05,520
you as a bit of a bit of a joke a bit of

519
00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:07,140
the funny side of things they still ask

520
00:21:10,340 --> 00:21:08,280
you accounting to the skeptics believe

521
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:10,350
in themselves at the same time they stop

522
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,390
and ask you serious questions I didn't

523
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,120
he Bo just the other day with 2gb before

524
00:21:19,850 --> 00:21:17,280
a pre-recorded for a program going out

525
00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:19,860
of two o'clock in the morning and the

526
00:21:22,730 --> 00:21:20,940
two things I want to talk about with

527
00:21:25,610 --> 00:21:22,740
ufos-- which cropped up a lot 30 years

528
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:25,620
ago and vaccination which didn't crop up

529
00:21:29,390 --> 00:21:27,630
a lot 30 years ago and that's one of the

530
00:21:31,910 --> 00:21:29,400
big differences that the topics that are

531
00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:31,920
covered now are very different and some

532
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:33,900
of them are a lot more serious than they

533
00:21:37,940 --> 00:21:35,970
used to be in the old days to a set of

534
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,950
said that the skeptics used to be

535
00:21:41,780 --> 00:21:39,600
investigated the paranoia and

536
00:21:44,450 --> 00:21:41,790
pseudoscience probably as much now it's

537
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:44,460
pseudoscience and paranormal is the

538
00:21:50,570 --> 00:21:48,330
emphasis what i have seen change is not

539
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:50,580
just the topics and not just the fact

540
00:21:56,150 --> 00:21:52,290
that skeptics are out and quite happily

541
00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:56,160
in most cases feel as in saying they are

542
00:22:00,770 --> 00:21:58,050
skeptics but in the fact that the

543
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:00,780
community has changed when he first did

544
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:02,370
the magazine it was that little

545
00:22:06,140 --> 00:22:04,110
committee it was a small bunch of

546
00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:06,150
support her subscribers and it was the

547
00:22:10,790 --> 00:22:08,520
magazine and that was it that was the

548
00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:10,800
entire media outlet for the skeptics we

549
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:12,350
used to push ourselves to the to the

550
00:22:16,790 --> 00:22:14,850
popular media but as far as the

551
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,800
outputting of the view it was that

552
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:19,200
little magazine 16 pages of hand typed

553
00:22:24,020 --> 00:22:22,110
information when I come back in there

554
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:24,030
it's totally changed the magazine is

555
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:25,980
just one aspect or how the message is

556
00:22:30,170 --> 00:22:28,230
being put out it's a good aspects

557
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:30,180
subscriptions available hardcopy PDF see

558
00:22:33,110 --> 00:22:31,530
any articles

559
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,120
but there are other things there's the

560
00:22:38,030 --> 00:22:35,760
bloggers the Facebook people the twitter

561
00:22:40,100 --> 00:22:38,040
is a new name and suddenly there are

562
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:40,110
people beyond that basic magazine

563
00:22:44,540 --> 00:22:42,930
subscription level in all areas we

564
00:22:45,860 --> 00:22:44,550
obviously didn't have podcasts we

565
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:45,870
obviously didn't have sort of online

566
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:48,750
services of any sort in the old days we

567
00:22:55,010 --> 00:22:51,570
didn't even have computers to do it but

568
00:22:58,400 --> 00:22:55,020
the approach now is fresh and as a vital

569
00:23:01,070 --> 00:22:58,410
and it's here as what you see here is a

570
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:01,080
lot of younger people not many beads and

571
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:04,310
the token be a person I'm 85 years old

572
00:23:09,170 --> 00:23:06,690
it's just it's fresh and it's where I

573
00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,180
come as I'm stunned it's where it's

574
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:11,120
moving it's it's active it's

575
00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:14,220
enthusiastic it's taking every advantage

576
00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:16,500
of every bit of technology you can to

577
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:17,790
spread the message and it's doing it

578
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:20,010
very very well compared to the old days

579
00:23:24,410 --> 00:23:23,070
which was tentative and hesitant and a

580
00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:24,420
little bit embarrassed and now it's

581
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:26,280
quite the opposite so I congratulate

582
00:23:30,050 --> 00:23:28,170
everybody here I congratulate the

583
00:23:31,940 --> 00:23:30,060
skeptics movement I some congratulate

584
00:23:34,190 --> 00:23:31,950
all the podcasters and facebookers and

585
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,200
Twitter's and meetups and everybody like

586
00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:36,720
that because it is a new world in the

587
00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:39,150
scepticism these days and it's very

588
00:23:57,390 --> 00:23:54,290
are there any questions they Tim

589
00:23:59,550 --> 00:23:57,400
triathlons population how things change

590
00:24:02,100 --> 00:23:59,560
to the advent of the Internet of the

591
00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:02,110
online step from networking well yeah

592
00:24:05,940 --> 00:24:03,280
well I first started it was no such

593
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:05,950
thing I didn't exist right I mean what

594
00:24:09,330 --> 00:24:07,810
I'm saying now is that the the messages

595
00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:09,340
spring spread so much more quickly

596
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:11,470
before is a quarterly magazine and that

597
00:24:14,490 --> 00:24:13,450
was it and now the message can get out

598
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:14,500
there within seconds there's better

599
00:24:18,540 --> 00:24:16,480
organization there's better sort of

600
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:18,550
spread of information one of the things

601
00:24:22,050 --> 00:24:19,930
I've been doing this a lot of stuff on

602
00:24:24,150 --> 00:24:22,060
the AVM and once upon a time I would

603
00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:24,160
have had to go solo to do research now I

604
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:25,870
just get in touch with Ken MacLeod

605
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:28,210
Daniel Raphael the whole bunch like that

606
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:30,370
and I get information like that so if

607
00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:32,080
we're talking about a media response for

608
00:24:35,250 --> 00:24:33,640
instance we're trying to get a story in

609
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:35,260
we can get information straight out

610
00:24:39,930 --> 00:24:37,270
right once more time you have to write a

611
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:39,940
letter to get a press release out now we

612
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:41,890
don't have to I mean is that what you're

613
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:44,050
talking about the internet it's the

614
00:24:48,690 --> 00:24:45,490
podcasting which is the most interesting

615
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:48,700
thing it's just kind of hold up from you

616
00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:50,170
know from way back when it's just that

617
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:52,150
it's fresh and it's enthusiastic as

618
00:24:56,910 --> 00:24:54,130
humorous and I say we think so it's

619
00:24:58,410 --> 00:24:56,920
really good whole city dam is the reason

620
00:25:01,650 --> 00:24:58,420
it isn't incident as well you think

621
00:25:04,530 --> 00:25:01,660
we're winning frankly we're never gonna

622
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:04,540
win we will have little victories

623
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:06,370
everywhere like with the avian we've had

624
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:07,570
a lot of victories with the a at the end

625
00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:10,050
I think metal door is going up and up

626
00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:12,550
with this now she's saying some very

627
00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:13,840
strange things now she's always said

628
00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:15,580
some strange things things things that

629
00:25:21,090 --> 00:25:17,680
are so easily picked up and and just

630
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:21,100
proved now she's lost her sense of

631
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:22,930
perspective I think the fact that these

632
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:24,490
ads were not back from Sydney's child

633
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:25,810
it's going to give her the [\h__\h] so much

634
00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:29,650
as fabulous because she knows she's

635
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:33,880
always been claiming paranoia now she's

636
00:25:41,970 --> 00:25:40,240
right but I mean there were they were

637
00:25:43,910 --> 00:25:41,980
always think if you notice here the

638
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:43,920
different interests that come and go

639
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:46,210
ufos have come and go in cycles right

640
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:48,010
you your face a silly sort of fun things

641
00:25:52,110 --> 00:25:49,450
and they're not really that harmful

642
00:25:53,370 --> 00:25:52,120
except unless you become a web with the

643
00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:53,380
array lians were who are the ones who

644
00:25:56,790 --> 00:25:54,940
there are the cold people in San

645
00:25:59,400 --> 00:25:56,800
Francisco who killed themselves aralia

646
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:59,410
yeah that's what I starts getting

647
00:26:02,070 --> 00:26:00,640
worrying but then he get the Jim Jones

648
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:02,080
who did the same thing with Jim Jones

649
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:03,370
used to raise people from the dead and

650
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:05,950
bend spoons he took my other people to

651
00:26:09,450 --> 00:26:07,990
their death right I mean I spoon bending

652
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:09,460
is fun unless you actually kill people

653
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:11,860
so these things go up and down UFOs are

654
00:26:16,110 --> 00:26:14,170
back in the news recently cuz I'll go

655
00:26:17,610 --> 00:26:16,120
down again psychic surgeons haven't

656
00:26:18,990 --> 00:26:17,620
heard from a while crystals that go up

657
00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:19,000
and down crystals used to be a lot

658
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:20,260
bigger than they are now you speak mess

659
00:26:26,490 --> 00:26:23,710
courage all mate is the big area and all

660
00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:26,500
that is top news time yes we'll win

661
00:26:30,330 --> 00:26:28,150
victories here we will lose victories

662
00:26:33,990 --> 00:26:30,340
there but the big thing is that we are

663
00:26:39,290 --> 00:26:34,000
better known and brought up

664
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:39,300
ah easy decision sorry again oh yeah

665
00:26:58,200 --> 00:26:42,400
evangel this thing about fantasy wasn't

666
00:27:01,890 --> 00:26:58,210
a nice evening 71 brigands get this

667
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:01,900
isn't true we should be eventually speak

668
00:27:06,330 --> 00:27:03,490
about I don't know if there's another

669
00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:06,340
word to proselytize the people what is

670
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:08,790
that badly but it would be so easy

671
00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:11,290
impossible food thanks very possible

672
00:27:16,020 --> 00:27:14,710
read it around by default be whatever

673
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:16,030
you have to be careful of your methods I

674
00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:16,930
mean they used to be what I used to

675
00:27:20,370 --> 00:27:18,430
balls called the provo wing of the

676
00:27:22,140 --> 00:27:20,380
skeptics right it always go for the

677
00:27:26,010 --> 00:27:22,150
throat all right and they basically

678
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:26,020
become as naughty as a lot of the people

679
00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:27,520
that are criticizing and that's the

680
00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:29,440
problem I think we have to be we have

681
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:30,760
one we have to keep stressing the

682
00:27:35,610 --> 00:27:32,830
scientific basis of what we do you can't

683
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:35,620
just say I'm a skeptic fun I'm better

684
00:27:39,090 --> 00:27:37,450
than you up again you can't do it

685
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:39,100
doesn't work I mean you put people off

686
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:40,690
its hard that any way to say you're a

687
00:27:44,730 --> 00:27:42,730
skeptic quite frankly it would just say

688
00:27:47,130 --> 00:27:44,740
you're a spoilsport right and then to

689
00:27:49,050 --> 00:27:47,140
say I'm a skeptic and i hate you all

690
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:49,060
right it's not going to work you have to

691
00:27:53,370 --> 00:27:51,130
explain what you do some cases it's

692
00:27:54,780 --> 00:27:53,380
impossible you just there are people who

693
00:27:57,420 --> 00:27:54,790
you come against a brick wall who will

694
00:28:02,070 --> 00:27:57,430
tim minchin the song you just can't give

695
00:28:04,770 --> 00:28:02,080
up even worth the bother yes it's always

696
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:04,780
worth it I mean the fact is you argue

697
00:28:10,350 --> 00:28:06,010
with a thousand people with one person

698
00:28:11,910 --> 00:28:10,360
you turn is worth it I was a teacher at

699
00:28:13,140 --> 00:28:11,920
once they don't you that you reach one

700
00:28:14,670 --> 00:28:13,150
kid in the class you think it's worth

701
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:14,680
well

702
00:28:27,870 --> 00:28:25,570
Dave again give another question about

703
00:28:31,230 --> 00:28:27,880
radical technology and sort of skeptics

704
00:28:36,420 --> 00:28:31,240
and media which talks about a media

705
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:36,430
story about some immediate group of lost

706
00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:39,250
people committing it says here we

707
00:28:50,130 --> 00:28:44,260
immediately set story beer bellies and I

708
00:28:51,630 --> 00:28:50,140
probably behind by Emma I know that's

709
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:51,640
the problem we're often too late you

710
00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:53,410
know in getting a story out instead of

711
00:29:00,030 --> 00:28:56,470
like sorry I have a question oh what's

712
00:29:01,770 --> 00:29:00,040
the email that I don't think any in our

713
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:01,780
subscription formal once one time I'll

714
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:03,730
do a belly recently help options of C

715
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:05,890
mail and email three see my health

716
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:07,810
existed for about 3 million years he

717
00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:09,850
just doesn't happen but I mean I know

718
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:10,990
and that's what that was a thing will

719
00:29:14,970 --> 00:29:13,090
spill there so surprising we actually

720
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:14,980
did so well considering all the

721
00:29:17,910 --> 00:29:16,330
limitations we had but then there were

722
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:17,920
limitations of that days that was where

723
00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:20,710
the way it worked one that was fun other

724
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:22,390
you're silly is fun I think it's

725
00:29:25,140 --> 00:29:23,710
actually more fun now than it ever has

726
00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:25,150
been because there's so many options

727
00:29:31,170 --> 00:29:28,360
open to you there we go but I mean it's

728
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:31,180
still a battle but hey there are more

729
00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:33,970
people here tonight then most of our

730
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:35,920
early meetings over there

731
00:29:43,410 --> 00:29:40,770
and this is not a big meeting on the

732
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,420
seventeenth of April that a seventeenth

733
00:29:48,110 --> 00:29:45,520
of April we have dinner meeting and it's

734
00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:48,120
sold out it's three weeks in advance so

735
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:51,040
i'll show you hundred fifty people any

736
00:30:02,790 --> 00:29:57,840
more questions keep in the kitchen

737
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:02,800
princes of an idea yes I do I think I

738
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:05,170
think it often creep seem and a lot of

739
00:30:08,820 --> 00:30:06,850
skeptics are atheists obviously right

740
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:08,830
but one of the big arguments use do the

741
00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:11,410
skeptics investigate God from my point

742
00:30:19,290 --> 00:30:15,790
of view no not God per se what God does

743
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:19,300
what she does we do investigate

744
00:30:22,410 --> 00:30:21,250
obviously any manifestation of God is

745
00:30:24,060 --> 00:30:22,420
fair game because then you can actually

746
00:30:26,370 --> 00:30:24,070
put to the test a shraddha cheery and a

747
00:30:29,180 --> 00:30:26,380
miracle a changing of water to wine or

748
00:30:31,050 --> 00:30:29,190
wine to water which I do all the time

749
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:31,060
anything like that anything like the

750
00:30:34,110 --> 00:30:32,230
effect you can actually sort of put to

751
00:30:36,980 --> 00:30:34,120
the test absolutely and actually covers

752
00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:36,990
a lot it's just that mystical mythical

753
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:40,060
figure out there like lightning actually

754
00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:42,610
just lightning to write that human test

755
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:43,870
the power of prayer which has been done

756
00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:46,450
right yes everything Charlie disprove

757
00:30:49,530 --> 00:30:48,190
God is ridiculous you know you got

758
00:30:51,930 --> 00:30:49,540
logically argument that's what the

759
00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:51,940
atheists do for the rationalist two of

760
00:30:55,620 --> 00:30:54,460
the humanists do but we have to make

761
00:30:58,620 --> 00:30:55,630
sure that as far as God is concerned

762
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,630
we're not pure cynics personally I don't

763
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:00,880
believe in God I have no need to believe

764
00:31:05,310 --> 00:31:02,530
in God I have no reason to believe in

765
00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:05,320
God and yeah I'm not gonna argue with

766
00:31:08,460 --> 00:31:06,550
someone thank God doesn't exist because

767
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:08,470
I don't believe it will I don't want to

768
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:10,330
believe it but everything else that

769
00:31:16,860 --> 00:31:13,450
happens but they don't disprove God try

770
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:16,870
to chew into fake miracles of a weeding

771
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:19,270
walls and moldy seal feelings at this

772
00:31:23,010 --> 00:31:21,850
time of stuff of fakes but yeah people

773
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:23,020
people have their faith and they have

774
00:31:25,810 --> 00:31:24,130
the faith of astrology and have their

775
00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:25,820
face on this down the other

776
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,020
but I think I think they should be

777
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:28,880
separate although we share the same

778
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:33,290
beliefs have you seen the faith of the

779
00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:39,390
astrology being different to just really

780
00:31:45,299 --> 00:31:42,160
comparable you said you can see them has

781
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:45,309
been parable astrology yeah so that

782
00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:46,510
somebody believes in astrology you're

783
00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:48,580
saying carefully oh my god his hacker

784
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:49,720
beliefs doubt it but that's totally

785
00:31:55,710 --> 00:31:53,170
testable it's different for the god bit

786
00:31:56,669 --> 00:31:55,720
of God yeah I think so because I mean

787
00:31:57,900 --> 00:31:56,679
then they're talking about planetary

788
00:31:59,190 --> 00:31:57,910
influences and you can test the

789
00:32:00,780 --> 00:31:59,200
planetary influences you can talk about

790
00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:00,790
gravity you talk about science

791
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:02,470
throughout astrology right and you can

792
00:32:05,820 --> 00:32:03,730
test the results and it's been done many

793
00:32:07,410 --> 00:32:05,830
times to see if you're born in a certain

794
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:07,420
star sign blah blah blah you know

795
00:32:11,940 --> 00:32:09,610
raising a sendin descendant whatever

796
00:32:14,100 --> 00:32:11,950
triads and United all that you can

797
00:32:15,299 --> 00:32:14,110
actually test the effectiveness pretty

798
00:32:17,940 --> 00:32:15,309
little too blind test and see what

799
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:17,950
starsign am i right classic you got one

800
00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:20,320
chance in 12 one chance in 13 I'm

801
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:21,880
knowing what star sign you up right and

802
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:26,290
I've had people say well neither guess I

803
00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:29,890
say I got it see told you very good very

804
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:31,630
impressed but I mean as far as you can

805
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:33,760
be tested most manifestations of

806
00:32:38,850 --> 00:32:35,890
religion can be tested the one about the

807
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:38,860
ultimate you know she being up there is

808
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,809
just York artist and you can't do their

809
00:32:46,230 --> 00:32:42,880
ballots believe the people who have

810
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:46,240
faith in astrology right and faith in

811
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:49,330
psychic surgery and faith in UFOs and

812
00:32:54,750 --> 00:32:51,850
faith in God knows whatever so whoever

813
00:32:56,970 --> 00:32:54,760
knows whatever right but I mean and

814
00:32:59,039 --> 00:32:56,980
those people you can argue to you blue

815
00:33:00,180 --> 00:32:59,049
in the face with a question about you

816
00:33:02,850 --> 00:33:00,190
know I thought of how much you need to

817
00:33:04,530 --> 00:33:02,860
sort of proselytize etc and some people

818
00:33:06,810 --> 00:33:04,540
us i yes i agree with you some people

819
00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:06,820
agree with you get to shut you up right

820
00:33:11,130 --> 00:33:09,400
and that's a pie others will say yep and

821
00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:11,140
think about it you have to encourage the

822
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:12,820
idea that skepticism is a universal

823
00:33:16,890 --> 00:33:14,890
attitude not just for pseudoscience and

824
00:33:18,690 --> 00:33:16,900
paranormal we are skeptical about used

825
00:33:20,010 --> 00:33:18,700
car salesman we are skeptical about real

826
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:20,020
estate people we are skeptical about

827
00:33:23,610 --> 00:33:22,090
journalists we are skeptical and so many

828
00:33:25,650 --> 00:33:23,620
areas someone comes along the users i

829
00:33:27,390 --> 00:33:25,660
can fly the first thing you say you

830
00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:27,400
don't say is oh well fantastic i'll go

831
00:33:30,630 --> 00:33:29,020
to my friends the first thing you say

832
00:33:32,790 --> 00:33:30,640
show me

833
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:32,800
and there is skepticism simple thing to

834
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:34,930
show me what people say that's right I

835
00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:37,090
understand what skepticism it and you

836
00:33:41,010 --> 00:33:39,670
say show me an astrology show me in this

837
00:33:45,630 --> 00:33:41,020
sharing everything else and that works

838
00:33:52,770 --> 00:33:45,640
that really does work what is the first

839
00:33:57,540 --> 00:33:52,780
you must on design from a technical

840
00:33:58,830 --> 00:33:57,550
point of view it's crap creationism do

841
00:34:01,620 --> 00:33:58,840
you are devoting it what ellington

842
00:34:05,970 --> 00:34:01,630
design is like you know sort of changing

843
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:05,980
his name to protect the guilty it's it's

844
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:08,770
it's annoying it's dangerous I certainly

845
00:34:11,970 --> 00:34:09,850
was in the early days because it was

846
00:34:13,350 --> 00:34:11,980
infiltrating the science classes the

847
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:13,360
curriculum in Queensland and it

848
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:15,550
certainly and moving down into here also

849
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,250
that stopped it to a certain extent

850
00:34:23,250 --> 00:34:20,560
being taught in those classes but I mean

851
00:34:24,930 --> 00:34:23,260
it's I don't think we have any problem

852
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:24,940
at all we're saying it's absolute

853
00:34:32,970 --> 00:34:29,850
rubbish every aspect of it nothing in it

854
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:32,980
better I mean most serious it's a little

855
00:34:38,490 --> 00:34:35,890
you know yes but no but how many of

856
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:38,500
these is absolutely no no no all right

857
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:41,169
and then creationist was the same thing

858
00:34:44,820 --> 00:34:42,730
intelligent design a say you got your

859
00:34:47,220 --> 00:34:44,830
religious belief do not claim it as

860
00:34:48,630 --> 00:34:47,230
science please because it's not true and

861
00:34:50,490 --> 00:34:48,640
you can go through and bam bam bam bam

862
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:50,500
bam and pull everyone apart they've got

863
00:34:53,460 --> 00:34:51,730
they'll come back with arguments to

864
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:53,470
those who are well organized there was

865
00:34:58,329 --> 00:34:55,090
will put the homeopaths do the same

866
00:35:01,930 --> 00:35:00,190
before before there are any more

867
00:35:06,549 --> 00:35:01,940
questions let me lean towards you i'm

868
00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:06,559
just a tweet from Simon Singh here this

869
00:35:11,229 --> 00:35:08,960
is obviously a quote from the from the

870
00:35:16,299 --> 00:35:11,239
judges first of all that the judgment

871
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:16,309
was 32 none so all three judges agreed

872
00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:18,410
with the decision and that they said

873
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:21,200
that not a jot of evidence which is the

874
00:35:27,269 --> 00:35:23,690
statement that was deemed libelous is a

875
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:27,279
statement of opinion and one backed by

876
00:35:38,709 --> 00:35:33,049
evidence just twist off as was going

877
00:35:40,269 --> 00:35:38,719
across right and one is so not a jot of

878
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:40,279
evidence is a statement backed by

879
00:35:45,009 --> 00:35:42,710
opinion so is a statement of opinion and

880
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:45,019
one back by reasons so it's looking very

881
00:35:49,749 --> 00:35:47,089
good for something that's excellent can

882
00:35:52,539 --> 00:35:49,759
you claim damages no but they'll have to

883
00:35:54,459 --> 00:35:52,549
pay these costs if they lose okay it's

884
00:35:57,039 --> 00:35:54,469
not it's not a final wing it what did

885
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:57,049
what it means is that he now will have

886
00:36:04,029 --> 00:36:00,079
to argue this case based on the fact

887
00:36:07,269 --> 00:36:04,039
that it's but it's an opinion and not as

888
00:36:08,589 --> 00:36:07,279
ruled previously by by the judge that's

889
00:36:10,299 --> 00:36:08,599
one of the things skepticism is not with

890
00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:10,309
that cost yeah right sometimes its

891
00:36:14,529 --> 00:36:12,680
financial costs and personal cost I have

892
00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:14,539
major fights with a brother-in-law who's

893
00:36:19,450 --> 00:36:17,569
you name it is into it every conspiracy

894
00:36:21,549 --> 00:36:19,460
theory he sells all this other stuff as

895
00:36:24,339 --> 00:36:21,559
well actually sells retails all these

896
00:36:26,769 --> 00:36:24,349
things and we have come to blows I mean

897
00:36:27,759 --> 00:36:26,779
I mean we have come to blows and there

898
00:36:29,650 --> 00:36:27,769
for you think well this is great for

899
00:36:31,089 --> 00:36:29,660
family relationships you have a nice

900
00:36:33,309 --> 00:36:31,099
family dinner and then you sort of tie

901
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:33,319
together the dinner thing it's you learn

902
00:36:37,420 --> 00:36:34,700
to shut up after a while you feel like

903
00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:37,430
yeah he doesn't

904
00:36:59,829 --> 00:36:45,460
questions thank you very much do you

905
00:37:02,589 --> 00:36:59,839
thank you this is brian dunning from the

906
00:37:06,180 --> 00:37:02,599
sceptile cast been enjoying your

907
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:06,190
critical thinking shows in audio only

908
00:37:13,109 --> 00:37:09,290
you've been missing half the fun check

909
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:13,119
out my new video podcast in fact on

910
00:37:21,250 --> 00:37:17,770
itunes or click it on skep tied com3

911
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:21,260
pilot episodes of in fact are available

912
00:37:25,299 --> 00:37:23,450
now for immediate viewing I'm looking

913
00:37:27,549 --> 00:37:25,309
for sponsorship to produce an entire

914
00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:27,559
first season of 13 episodes and

915
00:37:32,770 --> 00:37:30,140
hopefully many more seasons to follow

916
00:37:34,569 --> 00:37:32,780
you can see the whole lineup and get all

917
00:37:38,309 --> 00:37:34,579
the other nuts and bolts if you go to

918
00:37:41,140 --> 00:37:38,319
sceptile calm and click on in fact and

919
00:37:44,410 --> 00:37:41,150
don't forget to come back to the skeptic

920
00:37:47,770 --> 00:37:44,420
zone when you're done watching I I think

921
00:37:50,260 --> 00:37:47,780
it's audio only but that's okay I still

922
00:37:55,660 --> 00:37:50,270
like it this is brian dunning from

923
00:38:03,609 --> 00:37:58,660
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

924
00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:03,619
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners

925
00:38:09,250 --> 00:38:06,710
and welcome to dr. Reggie reports wow

926
00:38:11,740 --> 00:38:09,260
what a few very busy days it's been in

927
00:38:13,059 --> 00:38:11,750
the skeptical world this week I'm going

928
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:13,069
to tell you about a couple of things

929
00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:15,920
this week on dr. Richie reports but

930
00:38:20,109 --> 00:38:17,990
first up I'm going to cover the latest

931
00:38:22,930 --> 00:38:20,119
tantrum from the Australian vaccination

932
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:22,940
network last week I blogged on skeptics

933
00:38:26,589 --> 00:38:24,890
book about information I had received

934
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:26,599
which described the Australian

935
00:38:31,030 --> 00:38:28,609
vaccination network being refused paid

936
00:38:34,089 --> 00:38:31,040
advertising inner mothers and babies

937
00:38:36,430 --> 00:38:34,099
newspaper the child group of magazines

938
00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:36,440
publishes a series of free monthly

939
00:38:41,289 --> 00:38:39,049
magazines across Australia which are

940
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,299
personalized to each location such as

941
00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:43,760
Sydney's child Melvin's child Brisbane

942
00:38:48,849 --> 00:38:46,790
child etc the publications are

943
00:38:51,069 --> 00:38:48,859
distributed via child care centers and

944
00:38:54,370 --> 00:38:51,079
baby shops and are therefore highly

945
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:54,380
targeted to Australian parents as such

946
00:38:58,420 --> 00:38:56,480
they're the perfect place for the avn to

947
00:39:01,030 --> 00:38:58,430
spread their misinformation and possibly

948
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:01,040
scare a whole new bunch of parents into

949
00:39:06,670 --> 00:39:03,890
not vaccinating but in a surprising and

950
00:39:09,099 --> 00:39:06,680
pleasing move the publishers Copeland

951
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:09,109
press decided against taking the

952
00:39:15,250 --> 00:39:11,569
anti-vaxxers money and denied the avians

953
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:15,260
request to advertise now this comes

954
00:39:19,870 --> 00:39:17,450
after the avn had originally planned to

955
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:19,880
place advertising in all of the child

956
00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:23,440
publications across Australia in 2009 or

957
00:39:28,690 --> 00:39:27,260
was it the Australian newspaper don't

958
00:39:31,420 --> 00:39:28,700
worry it will all become clear in a

959
00:39:35,049 --> 00:39:31,430
moment the reason this sounds confusing

960
00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:35,059
is because from march to june 2009 morel

961
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:37,640
dory promoted a fundraising drive with a

962
00:39:42,609 --> 00:39:39,710
promise of financial assistance from

963
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:42,619
Jenny McCarthy's Generation Rescue to

964
00:39:48,039 --> 00:39:45,890
pay for an autism advertisement the cost

965
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:48,049
was going to be fifty three thousand

966
00:39:52,059 --> 00:39:50,450
dollars and it was to fund a full-page

967
00:39:54,220 --> 00:39:52,069
advertisement in The Australian

968
00:39:57,099 --> 00:39:54,230
newspaper which is a national newspaper

969
00:39:59,530 --> 00:39:57,109
and Generation Rescue would pay one

970
00:40:02,980 --> 00:39:59,540
third of the cost if the avn could raise

971
00:40:06,250 --> 00:40:02,990
the rest now Meryl set a deadline of

972
00:40:08,319 --> 00:40:06,260
monday march the 9th 2009 to raise the

973
00:40:09,390 --> 00:40:08,329
required approximately thirty five

974
00:40:11,859 --> 00:40:09,400
thousand dollars

975
00:40:14,549 --> 00:40:11,869
but after they've raised only seven

976
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:14,559
thousand dollars merrell changed tact

977
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:17,839
she said in the interests of actually

978
00:40:22,479 --> 00:40:20,450
bringing this to pass and also due to

979
00:40:25,539 --> 00:40:22,489
rethinking how our target audience will

980
00:40:27,430 --> 00:40:25,549
be we have decided to go for a full-page

981
00:40:30,430 --> 00:40:27,440
ad in every edition of copeland

982
00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:30,440
Publishing's child magazines of which

983
00:40:35,079 --> 00:40:32,390
there are six published every month for

984
00:40:37,059 --> 00:40:35,089
every capital city in australia too bad

985
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:37,069
if you'd already donated money thinking

986
00:40:41,319 --> 00:40:38,390
it was going towards an ad in The

987
00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:41,329
Australian I guess but nevertheless the

988
00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:43,700
ads never appeared and what happened to

989
00:40:47,950 --> 00:40:45,670
the money well I certainly don't know

990
00:40:49,630 --> 00:40:47,960
however the fact that the ads never

991
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:49,640
appeared either in the Australian

992
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:52,130
newspaper or Copeland press may have

993
00:40:55,749 --> 00:40:53,690
something to do with a competing

994
00:40:57,910 --> 00:40:55,759
advertisement which was published by

995
00:41:02,289 --> 00:40:57,920
Australian skeptics in the Australian

996
00:41:04,420 --> 00:41:02,299
newspaper on august sixth 2009 now this

997
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:04,430
effectively gazumped the avn to the

998
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:06,890
punch our ad was a quarter page in the

999
00:41:11,589 --> 00:41:08,930
australian and was famously funded by

1000
00:41:13,359 --> 00:41:11,599
dick smith and it warned parents of the

1001
00:41:15,609 --> 00:41:13,369
misinformation and scare mongering of

1002
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:15,619
the avian and advised them to seek

1003
00:41:20,049 --> 00:41:17,450
health information and vaccination

1004
00:41:23,769 --> 00:41:20,059
advice from qualified professionals like

1005
00:41:26,289 --> 00:41:23,779
doctors so now if we fast-forward to

1006
00:41:28,059 --> 00:41:26,299
April 2010 and we find out that the

1007
00:41:31,630 --> 00:41:28,069
avian are once again attempting to

1008
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:31,640
spread their information this time in

1009
00:41:36,849 --> 00:41:34,729
the Copeland press again we hear that

1010
00:41:39,130 --> 00:41:36,859
they have purchased one third page ads

1011
00:41:41,739 --> 00:41:39,140
in Sydney's child Melbourne a child and

1012
00:41:43,779 --> 00:41:41,749
Brisbane child at a total estimated cost

1013
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:43,789
of eight thousand dollars and this

1014
00:41:48,579 --> 00:41:46,880
request as i said was denied i blogged

1015
00:41:50,979 --> 00:41:48,589
about this on april the second on

1016
00:41:52,839 --> 00:41:50,989
skeptics book and it was also blogged on

1017
00:41:55,989 --> 00:41:52,849
the australian skeptics website on the

1018
00:42:00,219 --> 00:41:55,999
same date on april the fifth i received

1019
00:42:04,390 --> 00:42:00,229
an email entitled re ad which simply

1020
00:42:07,989 --> 00:42:04,400
contains the text you are liars but as

1021
00:42:11,620 --> 00:42:07,999
it turns out we however we are weren't

1022
00:42:14,349 --> 00:42:11,630
lying on april the 6th four days after

1023
00:42:16,509 --> 00:42:14,359
my post on skeptics book merrell diary

1024
00:42:18,609 --> 00:42:16,519
sent an e-newsletter explaining what had

1025
00:42:22,390 --> 00:42:18,619
happened and saying she was only doing

1026
00:42:22,730 --> 00:42:22,400
so because her hand had been forced she

1027
00:42:25,070 --> 00:42:22,740
can

1028
00:42:28,010 --> 00:42:25,080
firmed that the avian had booked three

1029
00:42:30,740 --> 00:42:28,020
times quarter page ads I said one third

1030
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:30,750
so I got this wrong but on March the

1031
00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:33,210
31st she had received an email advising

1032
00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:37,140
her that quote the publisher and editor

1033
00:42:41,210 --> 00:42:39,780
of the child magazines have decided that

1034
00:42:43,690 --> 00:42:41,220
they are unable to publish our

1035
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:43,700
advertisement in the upcoming issue as

1036
00:42:50,060 --> 00:42:46,410
independent publishers all material

1037
00:42:52,090 --> 00:42:50,070
placed is at our discretion so it turns

1038
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:52,100
out that I was not a liar after all

1039
00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:54,720
strange isn't it false accusations from

1040
00:42:59,570 --> 00:42:57,540
the anti-vaxxers who'd of thunk it but

1041
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:59,580
what made Dory particularly angry and

1042
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:01,440
also explains why she had to send his

1043
00:43:06,350 --> 00:43:03,690
post at all was that those meddling

1044
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:06,360
skeptics had known about this she said

1045
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:09,390
our committee was of two minds about how

1046
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:10,890
and when to tell you about this

1047
00:43:16,490 --> 00:43:14,250
situation in consultation together

1048
00:43:18,350 --> 00:43:16,500
however we have decided that the release

1049
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:18,360
of these details on the internet by

1050
00:43:23,359 --> 00:43:20,730
others has taken the decision out of our

1051
00:43:26,810 --> 00:43:23,369
hands she even copied and pasted my

1052
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:26,820
entire blog post into the rant even the

1053
00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:30,090
part where I say if she was not already

1054
00:43:34,099 --> 00:43:32,100
convinced there is a conspiracy to see

1055
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:34,109
her silenced than she ought to be well

1056
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:37,440
and truly by now paranoid much or maybe

1057
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:40,560
you should be Meryl however it is clear

1058
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:42,690
Meryl was pretty rattled when she wrote

1059
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:45,330
this which likely explains the following

1060
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:48,570
errors in her post quote because the

1061
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:50,970
head honcho of the skeptics had blogged

1062
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:53,010
about this very issue only a few days

1063
00:43:58,099 --> 00:43:55,440
earlier and had indicated that he would

1064
00:43:59,870 --> 00:43:58,109
be contacting parenting publications to

1065
00:44:02,930 --> 00:43:59,880
ensure that they do not take any

1066
00:44:05,780 --> 00:44:02,940
advertising from us so I wish to state

1067
00:44:08,330 --> 00:44:05,790
here and now that I am neither a the

1068
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:08,340
head honcho of Australian skeptics or be

1069
00:44:14,330 --> 00:44:11,910
a he and on top of this nowhere in my

1070
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:14,340
post did I state I would be contacting

1071
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:16,830
other parenting publications and I can

1072
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:19,290
unequivocally state I did not contact

1073
00:44:25,940 --> 00:44:22,350
Copeland press but in another example of

1074
00:44:28,730 --> 00:44:25,950
strays anding Meryl pasted my url within

1075
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:28,740
hurry newsletter and this resulted in an

1076
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:31,530
eight hundred percent peak in page loads

1077
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:34,050
and a four hundred percent increase in

1078
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:36,610
unique visitors to skeptics book

1079
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:39,460
thanks Merrill of course I got the usual

1080
00:44:44,580 --> 00:44:41,290
stuff some of which I'll share with you

1081
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:44,590
now dear listeners so here are some of

1082
00:44:49,410 --> 00:44:45,850
the comments I've received in the last

1083
00:44:51,450 --> 00:44:49,420
few days you should get of your hate

1084
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:51,460
wagon because that is all it sounds like

1085
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:54,010
to me this one comes from someone

1086
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,760
calling themselves you dogs this is the

1087
00:45:01,580 --> 00:44:59,680
most disgusting and hate-filled group of

1088
00:45:04,530 --> 00:45:01,590
people I've stumbled across on the web

1089
00:45:07,350 --> 00:45:04,540
seriously are you for real it's all cash

1090
00:45:10,110 --> 00:45:07,360
for comments though isn't it or are you

1091
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:10,120
all useful annoyed I think that's meant

1092
00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:13,930
to the idiots haha yet I wonder anyway

1093
00:45:17,970 --> 00:45:15,880
when people in your family start to get

1094
00:45:20,670 --> 00:45:17,980
sick don't worry at all your hate will

1095
00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:20,680
fill you and we'll all that's needed to

1096
00:45:25,730 --> 00:45:23,020
see you through oh that's right you have

1097
00:45:28,410 --> 00:45:25,740
all you need in science don't you

1098
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:28,420
hahahahahaha enjoy and of course

1099
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:33,010
everyone's favorite Godwin's law wow you

1100
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:34,930
are a modern version of the Nazi brown

1101
00:45:39,660 --> 00:45:37,290
shirts were you bullied at school dude

1102
00:45:41,250 --> 00:45:39,670
but what is interesting about this is

1103
00:45:43,140 --> 00:45:41,260
Merrill's barring that this is

1104
00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:43,150
tantamount to censorship and her free

1105
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:46,420
speech is being taken away but the child

1106
00:45:50,460 --> 00:45:48,730
has every right to refuse material they

1107
00:45:54,030 --> 00:45:50,470
fear may reflect badly on them or

1108
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:54,040
tarnish the reputation and of course the

1109
00:45:58,350 --> 00:45:55,930
irony is that Meryl is only too willing

1110
00:46:00,300 --> 00:45:58,360
to censor any shred of information that

1111
00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:00,310
does not align with her fear mongering

1112
00:46:05,250 --> 00:46:02,080
conspiracy littered ideas about

1113
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:05,260
vaccinations as one commenter on my blog

1114
00:46:09,930 --> 00:46:07,690
said the avians email list is

1115
00:46:11,790 --> 00:46:09,940
aggressively cold of dissent the

1116
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:11,800
facebook page is locked down to the

1117
00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:13,090
point where you need to beg for

1118
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:15,460
admission and their very own magazine

1119
00:46:20,610 --> 00:46:17,910
has a restrictive advertising policy I'm

1120
00:46:23,310 --> 00:46:20,620
willing to lay odds the avian will turn

1121
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:23,320
down any ad submitted by say Australian

1122
00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:26,650
skeptics well this is a good point but

1123
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:28,510
Meryl is so angry about this incident

1124
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,880
that she wrote another blog post saying

1125
00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:32,800
that members of the stop the Australian

1126
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:34,960
vaccination network group are immature

1127
00:46:40,290 --> 00:46:37,050
and childish and need to grow up

1128
00:46:43,260 --> 00:46:40,300
entitled the immaturity of those who

1129
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:43,270
oppose free choice then in a purely

1130
00:46:48,180 --> 00:46:46,330
Barbara low Fisher moment she called for

1131
00:46:50,450 --> 00:46:48,190
open discussion and debate about the

1132
00:46:54,589 --> 00:46:50,460
issue of vaccine safety

1133
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,599
she said so stop avn grow up debate

1134
00:46:59,089 --> 00:46:56,640
respectfully and show us your evidence

1135
00:47:02,300 --> 00:46:59,099
it's time to stop sniping and start

1136
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:02,310
communicating oh they already me two

1137
00:47:06,890 --> 00:47:05,010
dots explode again and my desk has a

1138
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:06,900
perfect imprint of my head in it right

1139
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,119
now so Merrill has started a

1140
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:10,800
letter-writing campaign to get all her

1141
00:47:14,990 --> 00:47:13,050
members to tell crumble impress the

1142
00:47:16,730 --> 00:47:15,000
publishers of the child magazines that

1143
00:47:19,490 --> 00:47:16,740
they are very naughty and have done a

1144
00:47:20,780 --> 00:47:19,500
very bad thing we have also written to

1145
00:47:23,359 --> 00:47:20,790
them to congratulate them on a

1146
00:47:24,980 --> 00:47:23,369
responsible and ethical decision perhaps

1147
00:47:28,339 --> 00:47:24,990
you would care to send your thoughts to

1148
00:47:30,829 --> 00:47:28,349
you can email marian at merion at

1149
00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:30,839
sydney's child calm today you and that

1150
00:47:36,260 --> 00:47:34,740
spelled ma r io n also this week marks

1151
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:36,270
the beginning of World homeopathy

1152
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:38,970
Awareness Week and to celebrate late

1153
00:47:43,579 --> 00:47:42,000
line on ABC television ran a story by

1154
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:43,589
the wonderful Walkley award winning

1155
00:47:49,310 --> 00:47:46,890
journalist Steve Canaan the focus was

1156
00:47:50,839 --> 00:47:49,320
the lack of power of our drug regulator

1157
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:50,849
known as the Therapeutic Goods

1158
00:47:56,930 --> 00:47:54,150
Administration or the TGA to shut down

1159
00:47:59,180 --> 00:47:56,940
pseudo scientific claims and the example

1160
00:48:01,880 --> 00:47:59,190
used was Merrill's mate Franz Sheffield

1161
00:48:04,190 --> 00:48:01,890
who runs the woo infested website called

1162
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:04,200
homeopathy plus these are the guys who

1163
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,330
recently sent an email alert about the

1164
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:08,160
very dodgy homeopathy for breast cancer

1165
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:10,800
study with the headline homeopathy

1166
00:48:16,339 --> 00:48:12,720
effective for breast cancer and

1167
00:48:19,010 --> 00:48:16,349
non-toxic i took this paper apart on

1168
00:48:21,859 --> 00:48:19,020
skeptics book calm so for more info head

1169
00:48:23,780 --> 00:48:21,869
over to the blog the TGA received a

1170
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:23,790
complaint about information on Fran's

1171
00:48:28,310 --> 00:48:26,700
website particularly pertaining to

1172
00:48:31,730 --> 00:48:28,320
claims about the effectiveness of

1173
00:48:33,770 --> 00:48:31,740
homeopathic immunization they asked Fran

1174
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:33,780
to remove this information but she

1175
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:36,810
simply ignored the ruling so Steve

1176
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:38,910
Canaan asked Fran Sheffield why she had

1177
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:41,010
not complied and she simply stated that

1178
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:42,660
she didn't agree with their findings

1179
00:48:47,089 --> 00:48:45,150
this was apparently the case for more

1180
00:48:51,170 --> 00:48:47,099
than thirty percent of those reprimanded

1181
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:51,180
by the TGA in 2009 the story of by Steve

1182
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:53,130
Canaan was a great expose of the

1183
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:55,170
failings of our drug and medicine

1184
00:49:00,740 --> 00:48:58,530
regulator the TGA but in developments

1185
00:49:03,410 --> 00:49:00,750
today Fran Sheffield has jumped the

1186
00:49:04,220 --> 00:49:03,420
shark big time on her website she

1187
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:04,230
published

1188
00:49:07,790 --> 00:49:05,880
a response to the Lateline piece

1189
00:49:10,070 --> 00:49:07,800
addressing Steve's claims that her

1190
00:49:12,980 --> 00:49:10,080
evidence is dodgy the response was

1191
00:49:15,650 --> 00:49:12,990
entitled can homeopathy immunize against

1192
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:15,660
epidemic and infectious diseases can

1193
00:49:21,980 --> 00:49:18,000
homeopathy address serious diseases such

1194
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:21,990
as aids and cancer no she didn't yes she

1195
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:26,160
did about AIDS she says homeopathy has

1196
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:28,260
been shown in the following trials and

1197
00:49:34,460 --> 00:49:31,410
studies to safely treat AIDS without

1198
00:49:36,380 --> 00:49:34,470
toxic side effects she then followed

1199
00:49:39,859 --> 00:49:36,390
this up with a copy paste of 12

1200
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:39,869
references Gish gallop away Fran some of

1201
00:49:43,790 --> 00:49:41,460
which are abstracts from conference

1202
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:43,800
presentations some of which are from ult

1203
00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:46,260
meant journals and some from everybody's

1204
00:49:53,930 --> 00:49:50,580
favorite homeopath Dana Ullman on cancer

1205
00:49:55,730 --> 00:49:53,940
Frances homeopathy has been shown in the

1206
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:55,740
following trials and studies to be

1207
00:50:00,290 --> 00:49:57,930
effective for cancer and without toxic

1208
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:00,300
side effects and this was followed by

1209
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:02,250
the sound Gish Gallup of copying and

1210
00:50:07,130 --> 00:50:04,890
pasting of references you see it is

1211
00:50:09,590 --> 00:50:07,140
illegal in New South Wales to claim you

1212
00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:09,600
can cure incurable diseases and this of

1213
00:50:14,660 --> 00:50:12,300
course includes cancer and AIDS this

1214
00:50:16,060 --> 00:50:14,670
comes under the Public Health Act the

1215
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:16,070
code of conduct for unregistered

1216
00:50:22,250 --> 00:50:18,540
practitioners which was introduced in

1217
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:22,260
August 2008 and I'm also pretty sure the

1218
00:50:26,450 --> 00:50:24,450
Australian homeopathic Association would

1219
00:50:29,390 --> 00:50:26,460
not be too impressed to hear one of

1220
00:50:31,910 --> 00:50:29,400
their own making such claims and even if

1221
00:50:33,830 --> 00:50:31,920
Fran is not a member of the aaha she

1222
00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:33,840
surely falls under the jurisdiction of

1223
00:50:37,940 --> 00:50:35,670
the healthcare Complaints Commission and

1224
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:37,950
this means her claims about cancer and

1225
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:40,890
aids are unlawful and meanwhile the TGA

1226
00:50:46,099 --> 00:50:44,130
is sitting on its hands so to celebrate

1227
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:46,109
world homeopathy Awareness Week I'm

1228
00:50:50,180 --> 00:50:47,970
going to send a complaint to the H

1229
00:50:52,940 --> 00:50:50,190
Triple C or the Australian homeopathic

1230
00:50:54,980 --> 00:50:52,950
Association so that's just some of the

1231
00:50:57,620 --> 00:50:54,990
happenings from a very busy week which

1232
00:51:00,620 --> 00:50:57,630
included Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy's

1233
00:51:09,740 --> 00:51:00,630
splitting up and until next time this

1234
00:51:24,530 --> 00:51:18,420
great great great let's all take this

1235
00:51:30,570 --> 00:51:28,860
I have with me today on the phone wendy

1236
00:51:33,090 --> 00:51:30,580
whelan Wendy thank you very much for

1237
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:33,100
being with me on the skeptic zone thank

1238
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:34,870
you very much for inviting me now

1239
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:37,930
whether you're a you're a GP nurse plus

1240
00:51:42,570 --> 00:51:39,490
a lot of other things is that correct

1241
00:51:45,090 --> 00:51:42,580
that is correct yes in general practice

1242
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:45,100
in a little country town you you can to

1243
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:49,090
multitask and one of my principal jobs

1244
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:50,770
into practice nurse but also the

1245
00:51:55,350 --> 00:51:53,890
practice manager and we searched and do

1246
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:55,360
you care when you care to tell us what

1247
00:51:59,550 --> 00:51:57,610
the country town is yeah here still

1248
00:52:01,950 --> 00:51:59,560
gained a new south wales the Hubbard the

1249
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:01,960
central west the hub of the central west

1250
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:05,410
okay so how big is the gander it's got a

1251
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:08,050
population of about 2,000 but then if

1252
00:52:12,930 --> 00:52:11,290
you take in the Shire as well I would

1253
00:52:15,150 --> 00:52:12,940
imagine it would be three or four

1254
00:52:17,490 --> 00:52:15,160
thousand it sort of is the junction of

1255
00:52:19,830 --> 00:52:17,500
three highways so it does tend to get

1256
00:52:22,650 --> 00:52:19,840
fairly busy and it has a few small

1257
00:52:26,490 --> 00:52:22,660
outline terms that have got limited

1258
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:26,500
medical resources and how how far is or

1259
00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:30,240
how close is the nearest big town

1260
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:32,920
three-quarters of an hour away 70

1261
00:52:38,850 --> 00:52:34,870
kilometres and that's to dubbo is that

1262
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:38,860
right that's correct yes okay and how

1263
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:42,070
many gb's are there in gilgandra we've

1264
00:52:46,410 --> 00:52:43,900
had a bit of an explosion whether we've

1265
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,420
gone through one GP which was dr.

1266
00:52:53,610 --> 00:52:48,640
giltrap that I originally started

1267
00:52:59,190 --> 00:52:53,620
working 24 to now having one two three a

1268
00:53:00,840 --> 00:52:59,200
five I think firing out yes ok we had 51

1269
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:00,850
down the Main Street one of the hustle

1270
00:53:07,110 --> 00:53:03,970
yes five that's great 5g piece which is

1271
00:53:10,170 --> 00:53:07,120
amazing I don't think any than a leg

1272
00:53:12,570 --> 00:53:10,180
machine to work ivan i might add so and

1273
00:53:15,660 --> 00:53:12,580
it just goes to show the amount of work

1274
00:53:19,180 --> 00:53:15,670
that divisions a little tool okay now i

1275
00:53:21,010 --> 00:53:19,190
want to explain why i actually wanted to

1276
00:53:24,010 --> 00:53:21,020
the reason I wanted to interview is

1277
00:53:27,240 --> 00:53:24,020
because I've heard through reliable

1278
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:27,250
sources that you have this year reached

1279
00:53:32,530 --> 00:53:29,930
100 percent vaccination rates is that

1280
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:32,540
correct that is correct however on our

1281
00:53:37,210 --> 00:53:34,970
last one so we must notice at the

1282
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:37,220
beginning it and on our last one there

1283
00:53:42,069 --> 00:53:39,200
was one child that went through and so

1284
00:53:43,809 --> 00:53:42,079
now I didn't 98.9 we're not actually a

1285
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:43,819
hundred percent you know rather

1286
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:45,710
devastated by that because I was very

1287
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:48,290
proud of our one hundred percent right

1288
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:50,960
but having said that 98.8 not too bad

1289
00:53:57,700 --> 00:53:54,050
either no it isn't no and this is this

1290
00:54:02,440 --> 00:53:57,710
is for a specific gb practice or is it

1291
00:54:05,020 --> 00:54:02,450
um yes yes it is that out that's our one

1292
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:05,030
for our practice but having said that

1293
00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:08,210
because it is a little country town we

1294
00:54:12,540 --> 00:54:10,280
tend to all work together so not so

1295
00:54:15,609 --> 00:54:12,550
other than so much about as in extra

1296
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:15,619
doctors not so much extra doctors but

1297
00:54:22,300 --> 00:54:19,690
certainly the early childhood worse and

1298
00:54:24,550 --> 00:54:22,310
motherhood nurse we would tend to work

1299
00:54:26,530 --> 00:54:24,560
in together so if they felt that there

1300
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:26,540
was a child in need and one of them

1301
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:28,970
wasn't he and then they would come and

1302
00:54:34,750 --> 00:54:31,310
see me and I guess if I wasn't in the

1303
00:54:36,579 --> 00:54:34,760
situation to do vice versa so we change

1304
00:54:38,740 --> 00:54:36,589
do came to work together but those

1305
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:38,750
statistics are pharrell surgery alone

1306
00:54:43,180 --> 00:54:40,910
and do you have any idea what the

1307
00:54:46,059 --> 00:54:43,190
statistics are for the other surgeries

1308
00:54:50,290 --> 00:54:46,069
no I don't actually not not at all but i

1309
00:54:51,970 --> 00:54:50,300
am just sort of reading I don't know

1310
00:54:54,250 --> 00:54:51,980
what I was an actor or one of those sort

1311
00:54:56,829 --> 00:54:54,260
of see Megan it may think they weren't

1312
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:56,839
saying that then the immunization rates

1313
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:01,040
were down throughout me so well now

1314
00:55:05,559 --> 00:55:02,810
whether or not that applies to do gange

1315
00:55:08,710 --> 00:55:05,569
i don't know i would be surprised

1316
00:55:12,970 --> 00:55:08,720
because we're pretty diligent as a town

1317
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:12,980
are trying to get vaccinations up to

1318
00:55:17,109 --> 00:55:15,290
date and keep them that way can you tell

1319
00:55:21,309 --> 00:55:17,119
me a little bit about the population the

1320
00:55:23,829 --> 00:55:21,319
socioeconomic status there and and the

1321
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:23,839
kind of problems that the population

1322
00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:26,089
might tend to have medical problems that

1323
00:55:29,740 --> 00:55:27,260
the population might tend to have

1324
00:55:31,990 --> 00:55:29,750
inbuilt andhra yes it's an interesting

1325
00:55:32,820 --> 00:55:32,000
wouldn't and actually they quite a

1326
00:55:35,350 --> 00:55:32,830
significant

1327
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:35,360
aboriginal population and there's also a

1328
00:55:40,450 --> 00:55:38,510
significant age population in addition

1329
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:40,460
to that in the 20 years that I've worked

1330
00:55:45,670 --> 00:55:43,850
there I've had the pleasure I'm having

1331
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:45,680
the grandparents bring the children and

1332
00:55:49,830 --> 00:55:47,450
then now those children have had

1333
00:55:52,060 --> 00:55:49,840
children so a lot of cases has three

1334
00:55:54,790 --> 00:55:52,070
generations of family that are coming

1335
00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:54,800
through the surgery and occasionally for

1336
00:56:01,330 --> 00:55:58,430
an interesting thing about that is that

1337
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:01,340
the natural tendency patterns in health

1338
00:56:08,170 --> 00:56:04,190
problems there's a large amount of

1339
00:56:10,450 --> 00:56:08,180
diabetes in a town that tends to run in

1340
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:10,460
certain families and the derivatives of

1341
00:56:16,330 --> 00:56:13,970
it absolutely is a big problem it was

1342
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:16,340
when I first came to determine that end

1343
00:56:21,790 --> 00:56:19,610
states are the real and cardiac problems

1344
00:56:24,850 --> 00:56:21,800
and agitations and the complications of

1345
00:56:27,130 --> 00:56:24,860
diabetes were very random I would think

1346
00:56:29,890 --> 00:56:27,140
that that's diminished in certain the

1347
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:29,900
healthcare for a variety of reasons has

1348
00:56:35,610 --> 00:56:32,330
improved and perhaps that's also the

1349
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:35,620
reporting at all there's a fairly large

1350
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:39,170
unemployed segments in their town but

1351
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:41,450
it's also not an apathetic town or to

1352
00:56:45,150 --> 00:56:43,310
tell where people have a goal of trying

1353
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:45,160
to sort of get out and do things it's

1354
00:56:51,250 --> 00:56:48,410
largely a farming community that

1355
00:56:52,900 --> 00:56:51,260
suffered largely from the brow and

1356
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:52,910
that's caused a lot of problems it's

1357
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,710
caused various mental health problems

1358
00:56:59,520 --> 00:56:57,200
and various other stress problems that

1359
00:57:03,070 --> 00:56:59,530
tend to go with those sorts of things

1360
00:57:04,870 --> 00:57:03,080
also being a rural area and prone to

1361
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:04,880
drought and flooding whatever we've got

1362
00:57:12,610 --> 00:57:09,410
a large influx seasonally of both mas

1363
00:57:16,330 --> 00:57:12,620
river to fever glandular fever and those

1364
00:57:18,670 --> 00:57:16,340
sorts of things as well so it's that you

1365
00:57:20,980 --> 00:57:18,680
know part of the normal sort of aging

1366
00:57:22,780 --> 00:57:20,990
illnesses that would come within our own

1367
00:57:25,050 --> 00:57:22,790
community so you tend to head the two

1368
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:25,060
extremes of the childhood illnesses

1369
00:57:31,150 --> 00:57:28,250
maybe tantalizes wheelies and all of

1370
00:57:35,290 --> 00:57:31,160
those sorts of things and also your age

1371
00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:35,300
once as well as a prisoner and alias and

1372
00:57:40,030 --> 00:57:37,910
critics syncretic to the average was

1373
00:57:42,420 --> 00:57:40,040
from your description of the population

1374
00:57:45,070 --> 00:57:42,430
in goog andhra it sounds to me like the

1375
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:45,080
population could be at high risk should

1376
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:46,640
there be an outbreak of community

1377
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:49,250
a communicable disease such as pertussis

1378
00:57:52,539 --> 00:57:50,690
or some other vaccine-preventable

1379
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:52,549
disease and I'm just wondering whether

1380
00:57:59,799 --> 00:57:55,089
you had any such outbreaks in the past

1381
00:58:01,750 --> 00:57:59,809
yes yes we did we have had tuchis

1382
00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:01,760
outbreaks certainly in the last couple

1383
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:04,809
of years that seems to have happen in

1384
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:09,920
adults and some children either children

1385
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:12,890
that are too young to be vaccinated yes

1386
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:16,250
or occasionally in some primary aged

1387
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:18,170
children not sure why that end has

1388
00:58:22,329 --> 00:58:20,089
happened if they have been children been

1389
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:22,339
fully vaccinated but certainly in the

1390
00:58:27,099 --> 00:58:24,049
adults that people wear their immunity

1391
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:27,109
has dropped off we presume and so of

1392
00:58:32,349 --> 00:58:29,170
course now that the district's is

1393
00:58:34,059 --> 00:58:32,359
available to grandparents and then this

1394
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:34,069
year to sort of healthcare workers

1395
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:36,890
hopefully that will help that problem as

1396
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:40,970
far as the others now we haven't very

1397
00:58:47,529 --> 00:58:43,690
very little and sort of the

1398
00:58:49,509 --> 00:58:47,539
meningococcal or the techni sore the

1399
00:58:52,749 --> 00:58:49,519
rebbe Ella and I think only one or two

1400
00:58:55,059 --> 00:58:52,759
measles in the last multiple years so

1401
00:58:57,519 --> 00:58:55,069
it's pretty good really okay certainly

1402
00:58:59,980 --> 00:58:57,529
if that did did break loose that'd be a

1403
00:59:02,259 --> 00:58:59,990
you know it would spread like wildfire

1404
00:59:05,230 --> 00:59:02,269
in a little town like this okay so

1405
00:59:06,819 --> 00:59:05,240
obviously you consider vaccines to be

1406
00:59:11,259 --> 00:59:06,829
quite an important public health measure

1407
00:59:13,539 --> 00:59:11,269
I i think it is vital I know not only

1408
00:59:15,130 --> 00:59:13,549
considered that it's vital to the

1409
00:59:16,809 --> 00:59:15,140
immediate health but I consider that

1410
00:59:20,279 --> 00:59:16,819
it's vital for the ongoing health

1411
00:59:22,779 --> 00:59:20,289
because of the risk of spreading it to

1412
00:59:24,999 --> 00:59:22,789
compromise members of the community such

1413
00:59:28,690 --> 00:59:25,009
as the age such as the babies or people

1414
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:28,700
with reduced immunity and if you can get

1415
00:59:34,509 --> 00:59:31,130
people to not be afraid of them and to

1416
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:34,519
see there's a you know just another part

1417
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:36,650
of their preventive health care and that

1418
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:38,569
in fact preventive health care is

1419
00:59:44,890 --> 00:59:41,359
worthwhile doing then I think I think

1420
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:44,900
it's better you know I think really so

1421
00:59:49,089 --> 00:59:46,730
do you feel do you feel that there's any

1422
00:59:50,499 --> 00:59:49,099
fear in the community about that scenes

1423
00:59:54,190 --> 00:59:50,509
you said they have to get over their

1424
00:59:56,380 --> 00:59:54,200
fear definitely yes definitely I say

1425
00:59:58,749 --> 00:59:56,390
it's got better over the years but

1426
01:00:00,010 --> 00:59:58,759
certainly from the point of view of

1427
01:00:02,170 --> 01:00:00,020
unionization

1428
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:02,180
and flu vaccines and of course the swine

1429
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:05,510
flu when it came in us GD there was a

1430
01:00:11,140 --> 01:00:08,330
lot of fear initially because it was the

1431
01:00:12,820 --> 01:00:11,150
unknown it was a vaccine that hadn't

1432
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:12,830
been tested for long and a lot of people

1433
01:00:19,210 --> 01:00:14,690
felt that it was a reaction or a

1434
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:19,220
response to hysteria slightly so they

1435
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:21,650
were very ain t having it done there now

1436
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:24,490
much better with that but for ongoing

1437
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:28,850
number of years the main community that

1438
01:00:33,070 --> 01:00:31,250
I want to target so preventive health is

1439
01:00:35,830 --> 01:00:33,080
the aboriginal population particularly

1440
01:00:37,930 --> 01:00:35,840
for their flu needles and the numa faxes

1441
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:37,940
now there are always my lowest group

1442
01:00:42,970 --> 01:00:40,930
they have seemed to have this and I

1443
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:42,980
don't know what you would call it just

1444
01:00:48,340 --> 01:00:46,070
like a innate sort of fear of needles as

1445
01:00:51,100 --> 01:00:48,350
much as anything not so much the actual

1446
01:00:52,990 --> 01:00:51,110
vaccine and the childhood vaccines they

1447
01:00:55,450 --> 01:00:53,000
fine with but it's the older people

1448
01:00:58,150 --> 01:00:55,460
there they don't respond nearly as well

1449
01:00:59,980 --> 01:00:58,160
as I would like them to do and you know

1450
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:59,990
they'll say yes they'll come but then

1451
01:01:03,250 --> 01:01:01,280
they won't come back and have their

1452
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:03,260
needles done so you've got to be really

1453
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:06,050
opportunistic and almost a little pushy

1454
01:01:11,110 --> 01:01:08,510
at times to get some of your older

1455
01:01:14,430 --> 01:01:11,120
population and that's a shame because I

1456
01:01:17,650 --> 01:01:14,440
think they you know they're in need and

1457
01:01:19,330 --> 01:01:17,660
I think they're at high risk you know

1458
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:19,340
particularly bearing in mind that the

1459
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:21,410
aboriginal mortality rate is about 20

1460
01:01:27,670 --> 01:01:23,570
years you know shorter than the average

1461
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:27,680
white Caucasian an off times I think

1462
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:30,050
preventively and I think we've got a

1463
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:31,490
really good rapport with Aboriginal

1464
01:01:36,580 --> 01:01:33,410
people here it's something that I'd like

1465
01:01:38,230 --> 01:01:36,590
to be able to improve if I could and

1466
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:38,240
what have you done this year in order to

1467
01:01:41,130 --> 01:01:39,710
get to one hundred percent immunization

1468
01:01:43,510 --> 01:01:41,140
I don't think there's anything

1469
01:01:45,900 --> 01:01:43,520
spectacularly different in this year I

1470
01:01:50,740 --> 01:01:45,910
think you could just best sum it up by

1471
01:01:52,660 --> 01:01:50,750
being ongoing consistent in as much as

1472
01:01:55,330 --> 01:01:52,670
they know that they are able to get

1473
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:55,340
their needles here that were always be

1474
01:02:01,810 --> 01:01:57,770
available pretty opportunistic so the

1475
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:01,820
situation arises where people can be

1476
01:02:06,340 --> 01:02:03,890
vaccinated than we do we've always got

1477
01:02:08,410 --> 01:02:06,350
supplies on hand and I personally make

1478
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:08,420
sure that I'm always available whether

1479
01:02:12,940 --> 01:02:10,130
it's convenient or not but I think

1480
01:02:13,870 --> 01:02:12,950
probably the biggest success story is

1481
01:02:16,330 --> 01:02:13,880
the fact

1482
01:02:18,010 --> 01:02:16,340
that we've got a really good rapport

1483
01:02:19,780 --> 01:02:18,020
with the other allied health workers

1484
01:02:23,140 --> 01:02:19,790
whether it be the community nurses the

1485
01:02:24,850 --> 01:02:23,150
childhood nurses the speeches or the

1486
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:24,860
women's shelter doesn't matter we're

1487
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:26,930
really lucky to have a good rapport in

1488
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:29,330
the community and and I've got excellent

1489
01:02:33,970 --> 01:02:31,970
doctors that I work for so that all

1490
01:02:36,370 --> 01:02:33,980
works together you know for the best for

1491
01:02:38,980 --> 01:02:36,380
the patient i believe so it's certainly

1492
01:02:40,990 --> 01:02:38,990
not a wendy whelan loan effort I can

1493
01:02:44,140 --> 01:02:41,000
assure you is that it's i would think

1494
01:02:45,850 --> 01:02:44,150
that while it's our surgery I think

1495
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:45,860
there's lots of people feeding to make

1496
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:48,050
things a successful not normally just

1497
01:02:53,550 --> 01:02:50,690
one person have you been working with

1498
01:02:55,750 --> 01:02:53,560
the other surgeries in order to promote

1499
01:02:58,210 --> 01:02:55,760
vaccinations as a public health measure

1500
01:02:59,800 --> 01:02:58,220
to the community at large rather than

1501
01:03:04,660 --> 01:02:59,810
just the community the part of the

1502
01:03:07,660 --> 01:03:04,670
community that attends your surgery I if

1503
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:07,670
ever they look that particularly there

1504
01:03:11,770 --> 01:03:09,410
is a surgery at the hospital it's a new

1505
01:03:14,730 --> 01:03:11,780
surgery I've certainly promoted it to

1506
01:03:17,470 --> 01:03:14,740
them we would probably be the most

1507
01:03:19,060 --> 01:03:17,480
senior surgery in as much as that I just

1508
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:19,070
mean that we've been there the longest

1509
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:22,370
and probably know the ropes easier so I

1510
01:03:27,340 --> 01:03:25,280
guess from a consulting point of view on

1511
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:27,350
there and I'm available in that village

1512
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:29,570
it's quite often use me that they will

1513
01:03:33,130 --> 01:03:31,370
be if there's any problems and often

1514
01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:33,140
even our chemists because we've only got

1515
01:03:37,390 --> 01:03:34,910
one chemist in town and although she's

1516
01:03:39,940 --> 01:03:37,400
great she'll often ring me up and to say

1517
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:39,950
you know you know I've got this problem

1518
01:03:43,210 --> 01:03:41,570
what do you think and i guess would

1519
01:03:44,980 --> 01:03:43,220
would be two colleagues together rather

1520
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:44,990
than one person being better than the

1521
01:03:51,580 --> 01:03:49,970
other so here so I any active chance

1522
01:03:53,230 --> 01:03:51,590
that I would get it i would promote it

1523
01:03:56,500 --> 01:03:53,240
but we also have an immunization

1524
01:03:58,210 --> 01:03:56,510
conference in Dubbo each year for all

1525
01:04:00,910 --> 01:03:58,220
the little towns and all the surgeries

1526
01:04:02,590 --> 01:04:00,920
so they would promote it as well there

1527
01:04:05,740 --> 01:04:02,600
are organizations and the organizations

1528
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:05,750
that we fight with quite a loss that try

1529
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:07,510
to promote all kinds of fear and

1530
01:04:12,700 --> 01:04:11,210
misinformation about vaccines do you

1531
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:12,710
feel that they're having some kind of

1532
01:04:17,230 --> 01:04:15,170
effect in your environment that's an

1533
01:04:20,530 --> 01:04:17,240
interesting question actually oh if it

1534
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:20,540
had it been prior to Medicare giving

1535
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:22,370
their incentive payments they're having

1536
01:04:27,350 --> 01:04:25,730
completed vaccines and I think people

1537
01:04:29,570 --> 01:04:27,360
would have tended to use

1538
01:04:34,070 --> 01:04:29,580
that more especially for the children

1539
01:04:36,650 --> 01:04:34,080
but certainly not now if that's the

1540
01:04:40,490 --> 01:04:36,660
swine flu and it's now been integrated

1541
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:40,500
more as well but certainly in the old a

1542
01:04:45,410 --> 01:04:42,330
lot there's a lot of people that say

1543
01:04:48,620 --> 01:04:45,420
they don't need it that they're seen

1544
01:04:51,740 --> 01:04:48,630
other people have bad reactions etc etc

1545
01:04:53,300 --> 01:04:51,750
and that is a much harder group to get

1546
01:04:56,270 --> 01:04:53,310
done people seem to be happy enough to

1547
01:04:58,130 --> 01:04:56,280
do the children but not themselves they

1548
01:05:01,160 --> 01:04:58,140
don't realize that they're the extended

1549
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:01,170
arm but you know can infect their

1550
01:05:05,960 --> 01:05:04,410
families as much as anything else so I

1551
01:05:08,180 --> 01:05:05,970
guess rather than a specific

1552
01:05:11,990 --> 01:05:08,190
organization that just seems to be this

1553
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:12,000
general slight nerdiness if you would

1554
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:15,690
like amongst particularly the aboriginal

1555
01:05:20,540 --> 01:05:17,730
community or the lower socioeconomic

1556
01:05:23,750 --> 01:05:20,550
groups where they perhaps not as well

1557
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:23,760
informed but i believe continued

1558
01:05:29,390 --> 01:05:26,250
education and consistent education is

1559
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:29,400
back the answer to that now Wendy let me

1560
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:30,690
ask you this I know you have

1561
01:05:34,820 --> 01:05:33,210
grandchildren so I think it would be

1562
01:05:36,980 --> 01:05:34,830
fair to assume that you've been a nurse

1563
01:05:40,550 --> 01:05:36,990
for quite a while since when have you

1564
01:05:42,710 --> 01:05:40,560
been a nurse Oh since when I started in

1565
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:42,720
nineteen seventy-four I started nursing

1566
01:05:49,430 --> 01:05:47,730
and I did nothing and also started

1567
01:05:51,830 --> 01:05:49,440
speech therapy but I also did my only

1568
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:51,840
childhood teaching sir got a few

1569
01:05:58,870 --> 01:05:55,050
different caps but nursing's my passion

1570
01:06:03,950 --> 01:05:58,880
I love my nursing and you so in 1974

1571
01:06:09,020 --> 01:06:03,960
that was maybe 13 14 years out from the

1572
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:09,030
last cases of polio so so people would

1573
01:06:15,110 --> 01:06:12,930
have would have been the effect of these

1574
01:06:19,490 --> 01:06:15,120
diseases that are now that since then

1575
01:06:23,060 --> 01:06:19,500
have been prevented by by vaccines have

1576
01:06:25,690 --> 01:06:23,070
you seen over time as people no less and

1577
01:06:28,670 --> 01:06:25,700
less of people who have suffered from

1578
01:06:30,980 --> 01:06:28,680
vaccine-preventable diseases that the

1579
01:06:34,550 --> 01:06:30,990
tendency to immunize it affects its

1580
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:34,560
tendency to complete the vaccination

1581
01:06:39,660 --> 01:06:37,140
regime has deteriorated or what kind of

1582
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:39,670
effect have you seen over time

1583
01:06:45,180 --> 01:06:42,970
as regards specifically polio inside

1584
01:06:48,450 --> 01:06:45,190
diphtheria or those sorts of ones you're

1585
01:06:50,130 --> 01:06:48,460
talking about well I would assume again

1586
01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:50,140
I'm making a bit of an assumption here

1587
01:06:54,569 --> 01:06:51,609
so I'm interested to know your opinion

1588
01:06:56,750 --> 01:06:54,579
my assumption is that vaccines are in a

1589
01:06:59,250 --> 01:06:56,760
sense their own worst enemies because

1590
01:07:01,500 --> 01:06:59,260
those terrible diseases that are now

1591
01:07:03,210 --> 01:07:01,510
preventable by vaccines are gone they're

1592
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:03,220
basically not there anymore so people do

1593
01:07:09,690 --> 01:07:05,680
not tend to see them nobody bring her

1594
01:07:12,180 --> 01:07:09,700
nobody who is less than about 35 knows

1595
01:07:13,859 --> 01:07:12,190
many people who knows many if any people

1596
01:07:19,049 --> 01:07:13,869
with polio for example her suffered from

1597
01:07:21,299 --> 01:07:19,059
polio I think probably and I would agree

1598
01:07:23,910 --> 01:07:21,309
with you except for one thing you've got

1599
01:07:26,130 --> 01:07:23,920
to remember that now many people are

1600
01:07:29,609 --> 01:07:26,140
traveling and I think travel medicine

1601
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:29,619
has probably re enlightened or

1602
01:07:33,420 --> 01:07:32,049
re-educated people because as you would

1603
01:07:37,099 --> 01:07:33,430
know that if you go to somewhere like

1604
01:07:39,089 --> 01:07:37,109
the middle of Africa polio is still

1605
01:07:40,620 --> 01:07:39,099
occurring there and therefore that's

1606
01:07:42,569 --> 01:07:40,630
where you would have your I poll

1607
01:07:46,670 --> 01:07:42,579
vaccination there is only a couple of

1608
01:07:49,470 --> 01:07:46,680
places in the world where polio is still

1609
01:07:51,329 --> 01:07:49,480
required to go and you know it's a

1610
01:07:53,819 --> 01:07:51,339
prerequisite when you're traveling but

1611
01:07:56,150 --> 01:07:53,829
because people are tending to go more

1612
01:07:58,770 --> 01:07:56,160
and more to those sorts of places now

1613
01:08:00,599 --> 01:07:58,780
we're finding that they're a little bit

1614
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:00,609
more aware I used to find that there are

1615
01:08:08,819 --> 01:08:03,730
a bit ho-hum but not so much so now they

1616
01:08:10,650 --> 01:08:08,829
they tend to be more aware the biggest

1617
01:08:12,780 --> 01:08:10,660
thing I find is not so much that they

1618
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:12,790
won't have the vaccinations done but

1619
01:08:18,390 --> 01:08:14,530
that they don't have now enough time to

1620
01:08:21,150 --> 01:08:18,400
have the vaccination completed fully and

1621
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:21,160
that that bothers me for instance you

1622
01:08:25,050 --> 01:08:23,290
know for the hepatitis I you know like

1623
01:08:27,870 --> 01:08:25,060
hepatitis was around a lot when I was a

1624
01:08:30,150 --> 01:08:27,880
child not so much now as an arrow in

1625
01:08:32,180 --> 01:08:30,160
fact very rarely as an adult people

1626
01:08:35,370 --> 01:08:32,190
don't realize that you need two vaccines

1627
01:08:37,740 --> 01:08:35,380
16 months related to complete the

1628
01:08:39,930 --> 01:08:37,750
vaccination and that's the problem that

1629
01:08:43,349 --> 01:08:39,940
I'm tending to see more of that people

1630
01:08:45,900 --> 01:08:43,359
don't come and willingly follow up for

1631
01:08:48,059 --> 01:08:45,910
the second one they intend to they just

1632
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:48,069
don't get around to it or they don't see

1633
01:08:50,999 --> 01:08:49,600
the value of it do you think that's

1634
01:08:52,829 --> 01:08:51,009
probably because they're not worried

1635
01:08:58,559 --> 01:08:52,839
enough about those view those

1636
01:09:00,059 --> 01:08:58,569
I think they not so much that they're

1637
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:00,069
not worried about it i think that's a

1638
01:09:05,519 --> 01:09:02,230
combination of things i think they we

1639
01:09:07,229 --> 01:09:05,529
live in a society where 11 fix fixes

1640
01:09:09,329 --> 01:09:07,239
everything so people tend to think that

1641
01:09:12,059 --> 01:09:09,339
if you have one vaccine its kind of fix

1642
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:12,069
the whole one and anything that in our

1643
01:09:19,079 --> 01:09:14,290
health system i found that requires an

1644
01:09:21,390 --> 01:09:19,089
ongoing process tends to run the risk of

1645
01:09:23,579 --> 01:09:21,400
not being fully compliant and i think

1646
01:09:27,419 --> 01:09:23,589
that's the biggest thing whether whether

1647
01:09:29,609 --> 01:09:27,429
it be immunization or your ongoing

1648
01:09:31,169 --> 01:09:29,619
enhanced primary care for the chronic

1649
01:09:33,209 --> 01:09:31,179
diseases any of those sorts of things

1650
01:09:37,249 --> 01:09:33,219
that require requires an ongoing

1651
01:09:39,749 --> 01:09:37,259
commitment need extra diligence on our

1652
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:39,759
part and record keeping because they're

1653
01:09:45,570 --> 01:09:43,330
the ones that people tend to fall ban on

1654
01:09:47,010 --> 01:09:45,580
i guess i guess people just too busy as

1655
01:09:50,430 --> 01:09:47,020
much as anything i don't think it's

1656
01:09:53,070 --> 01:09:50,440
necessarily not wanting to do it they

1657
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:53,080
just don't get me Wendy thank you very

1658
01:09:58,859 --> 01:09:57,010
much for giving me of your time and it's

1659
01:10:00,240 --> 01:09:58,869
been great speaking to and well done on

1660
01:10:02,160 --> 01:10:00,250
the achievement of getting one hundred

1661
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:02,170
percent vaccination even if it has now

1662
01:10:09,270 --> 01:10:05,010
dropped to what ninety-eight point I

1663
01:10:14,220 --> 01:10:09,280
know she and I believe okay thank you

1664
01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:14,230
very much yeah aight guys i was talking

1665
01:10:18,359 --> 01:10:16,000
to Richard Saunders isn't it all right

1666
01:10:20,790 --> 01:10:18,369
he said if we record a trailer for our

1667
01:10:22,500 --> 01:10:20,800
podcast skeptics with a que he declared

1668
01:10:23,970 --> 01:10:22,510
on their on their show that's nice of

1669
01:10:24,870 --> 01:10:23,980
him that's very generous it's pretty

1670
01:10:26,850 --> 01:10:24,880
good i'm not sure what we could do

1671
01:10:28,589 --> 01:10:26,860
though I mean well suppose you tell

1672
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:28,599
people shows about but it's basic is

1673
01:10:33,060 --> 01:10:31,449
this yeah like yeah but you know we talk

1674
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:33,070
about science and skepticism and things

1675
01:10:35,609 --> 01:10:34,510
that's that's true i suppose en you

1676
01:10:38,129 --> 01:10:35,619
mentioned the website address what

1677
01:10:39,870 --> 01:10:38,139
merseyside skeptics todo UK yeah yeah

1678
01:10:41,129 --> 01:10:39,880
just like searches night UN's oh and

1679
01:10:44,850 --> 01:10:41,139
then we could end with like a big song

1680
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:44,860
like the skeptics with okay god no no no

1681
01:11:00,970 --> 01:10:57,400
I'm Carly Sturgis and today I'm talking

1682
01:11:03,190 --> 01:11:00,980
to crispy and Jago Crispian works in

1683
01:11:05,229 --> 01:11:03,200
information technology and lives in

1684
01:11:08,530 --> 01:11:05,239
Hampshire England where he keeps a very

1685
01:11:10,660 --> 01:11:08,540
beautiful garden online he says he's

1686
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,670
well known for pointing a satirical and

1687
01:11:15,030 --> 01:11:12,800
bogi stained finger at those who

1688
01:11:18,550 --> 01:11:15,040
preferred dogma and irrational beliefs

1689
01:11:20,860 --> 01:11:18,560
his side science reason and critical

1690
01:11:23,620 --> 01:11:20,870
thinking features rave reviews by the

1691
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:23,630
likes of Adam Savage Phil Plait and Ben

1692
01:11:29,020 --> 01:11:26,210
Goldacre for his creative depiction of

1693
01:11:32,260 --> 01:11:29,030
skeptics using playing cards and parody

1694
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:32,270
he also features album reviews on his

1695
01:11:41,140 --> 01:11:38,480
side wwwspa- hello Crispian and thanks

1696
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:41,150
for the opportunity for an interview hi

1697
01:11:45,729 --> 01:11:43,250
Carly many thanks for having me on you

1698
01:11:48,610 --> 01:11:45,739
describe yourself on your site as an IT

1699
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:48,620
consultant specializing in software test

1700
01:11:53,470 --> 01:11:50,930
management and consultancy with a

1701
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:53,480
passion for music and science so do you

1702
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:55,489
also call yourself a skeptic and why

1703
01:11:59,770 --> 01:11:57,650
yeah I would absolutely describe myself

1704
01:12:01,180 --> 01:11:59,780
as a skeptic and thanks for pointing out

1705
01:12:03,160 --> 01:12:01,190
that I obviously forgot to include that

1706
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:03,170
word on my blog profile probably need to

1707
01:12:08,170 --> 01:12:05,930
update that but IT consultancy is my day

1708
01:12:09,250 --> 01:12:08,180
job and I have my own company i

1709
01:12:12,580 --> 01:12:09,260
specialize in software testing

1710
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:12,590
strategies and test processes but as

1711
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:14,480
much as I enjoy that my passion is

1712
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:16,730
indeed for science and music and I guess

1713
01:12:20,890 --> 01:12:19,250
despite a temporary religious blind spot

1714
01:12:23,229 --> 01:12:20,900
during my late teenage years I've always

1715
01:12:24,940 --> 01:12:23,239
been skeptical I just didn't really

1716
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:24,950
recognize myself as a skeptic until

1717
01:12:28,930 --> 01:12:26,960
probably a couple of years ago when I

1718
01:12:30,940 --> 01:12:28,940
started attending skeptics in the pub in

1719
01:12:32,770 --> 01:12:30,950
London and it became immediately obvious

1720
01:12:36,220 --> 01:12:32,780
to me that these are my people and

1721
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:36,230
that's what I was so since then i worked

1722
01:12:39,850 --> 01:12:38,210
with my local skeptical compadre dave

1723
01:12:41,979 --> 01:12:39,860
hughes and we've set up the Hampshire

1724
01:12:43,959 --> 01:12:41,989
skeptics society let me know run another

1725
01:12:46,300 --> 01:12:43,969
skeptics in the pub in Winchester and

1726
01:12:48,610 --> 01:12:46,310
Hampshire and that's all going very well

1727
01:12:50,590 --> 01:12:48,620
there seems to be a great deal of desire

1728
01:12:53,410 --> 01:12:50,600
for skeptical events and critical

1729
01:12:55,420 --> 01:12:53,420
thinking so it's all good you think that

1730
01:12:57,910 --> 01:12:55,430
there's more skeptically minded people

1731
01:12:59,470 --> 01:12:57,920
involved in ite or is the profession

1732
01:13:01,390 --> 01:12:59,480
like any other well I guess there's a

1733
01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:01,400
lot of people in IT so it's hardly

1734
01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:02,930
surprising that found number them

1735
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:04,110
revolved in the

1736
01:13:10,580 --> 01:13:07,730
sketchup community but i suspect that

1737
01:13:13,220 --> 01:13:10,590
both critical thinking and woowoo exists

1738
01:13:16,490 --> 01:13:13,230
within all professions perhaps I T

1739
01:13:19,370 --> 01:13:16,500
attracts more geeky nerdy sciency sort

1740
01:13:21,350 --> 01:13:19,380
of people who were maybes predisposed to

1741
01:13:24,530 --> 01:13:21,360
more science and reason and critical

1742
01:13:26,270 --> 01:13:24,540
thinking rather than fairies and

1743
01:13:28,370 --> 01:13:26,280
pseudoscience and irrational nonsense

1744
01:13:31,010 --> 01:13:28,380
you're the creator of a very popular

1745
01:13:32,899 --> 01:13:31,020
blog called science reason and critical

1746
01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:32,909
thinking which involves parodies of

1747
01:13:37,879 --> 01:13:35,550
ladybird books tarot cards and even

1748
01:13:39,910 --> 01:13:37,889
interviews what first inspired you to

1749
01:13:42,410 --> 01:13:39,920
start creating that kind of site I

1750
01:13:44,510 --> 01:13:42,420
started writing my science reason and

1751
01:13:46,490 --> 01:13:44,520
critical thinking blog and just over 18

1752
01:13:48,470 --> 01:13:46,500
months ago and the main reason was that

1753
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:48,480
every time I went to skeptics in the pub

1754
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:50,369
someone would invariably ask me do you

1755
01:13:55,250 --> 01:13:53,010
blog or what's the name of your blog so

1756
01:13:56,990 --> 01:13:55,260
one lunchtime when I couldn't be asked

1757
01:14:00,200 --> 01:13:57,000
to leave my desk I logged on to blogger

1758
01:14:01,570 --> 01:14:00,210
and i set up my blog i hadn't planned on

1759
01:14:03,859 --> 01:14:01,580
doing it i hadn't given it any thought

1760
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:03,869
so when I was prompted with a flashing

1761
01:14:06,890 --> 01:14:05,520
cursor following the question blog name

1762
01:14:08,300 --> 01:14:06,900
i just typed in the first thing that

1763
01:14:10,540 --> 01:14:08,310
came into my head which just happened to

1764
01:14:12,709 --> 01:14:10,550
be science reason in critical thinking

1765
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:12,719
perhaps with hindsight i could have

1766
01:14:16,669 --> 01:14:14,130
thought of something a bit more witty

1767
01:14:20,899 --> 01:14:16,679
your pithy that there you go I'm not

1768
01:14:22,850 --> 01:14:20,909
changing it there so first I tried to

1769
01:14:25,070 --> 01:14:22,860
write serious posts about skeptical

1770
01:14:27,129 --> 01:14:25,080
issues but I think I just ended up sort

1771
01:14:29,930 --> 01:14:27,139
of echoing thoughts and ideas that I've

1772
01:14:32,510 --> 01:14:29,940
heard express much more eloquently by

1773
01:14:35,899 --> 01:14:32,520
other writers and podcasters and

1774
01:14:37,459 --> 01:14:35,909
bloggers and then about a year ago it's

1775
01:14:40,129 --> 01:14:37,469
just before the initial Simon Singh

1776
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:40,139
hearing at the course of justice I was

1777
01:14:44,180 --> 01:14:41,730
listening to a description of the case I

1778
01:14:45,950 --> 01:14:44,190
think it's on the on the SGU podcast I

1779
01:14:48,590 --> 01:14:45,960
realized for the first time that the

1780
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:48,600
whole purpose of the sing b/ci trial was

1781
01:14:53,060 --> 01:14:50,489
not to review the empirical evidence on

1782
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:53,070
the truth of the bch claims but it was

1783
01:14:57,080 --> 01:14:55,650
to bicker about semantics and in an

1784
01:14:59,149 --> 01:14:57,090
attempt to sort of silence valid

1785
01:15:00,950 --> 01:14:59,159
criticism and the moment that dawned on

1786
01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:00,960
me I immediately thought of the woods

1787
01:15:05,450 --> 01:15:02,400
trough and Monty Python and the Holy

1788
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:05,460
Grail so I rewrote the witch sketch to

1789
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,320
the tune of we have found a scientists

1790
01:15:11,419 --> 01:15:09,600
may be sue him when I posted on my blog

1791
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:11,429
later that day in to my surprise it was

1792
01:15:17,780 --> 01:15:15,330
retweeted and linked and I thought wow

1793
01:15:20,180 --> 01:15:17,790
this is rather easy just writing and

1794
01:15:21,950 --> 01:15:20,190
satirical skeptical blogs rehashing

1795
01:15:24,170 --> 01:15:21,960
Monty Python sketch uses a lot easier

1796
01:15:27,230 --> 01:15:24,180
than them thinking of your own original

1797
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:27,240
stuff so pretty much since then rather

1798
01:15:32,180 --> 01:15:30,210
than writing insightful original reviews

1799
01:15:34,940 --> 01:15:32,190
of important issues I find it easier

1800
01:15:38,300 --> 01:15:34,950
just to wave the shitty stick it

1801
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:38,310
irrational nonsense works for me people

1802
01:15:43,130 --> 01:15:40,410
may best know you as the creator of the

1803
01:15:45,340 --> 01:15:43,140
skeptic trump cards how did they come to

1804
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:45,350
be and what's been the overall reaction

1805
01:15:50,690 --> 01:15:48,960
well more plagiarism really christina

1806
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:50,700
martin put together a great pack of God

1807
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:52,890
Trump's in the new humanist magazine a

1808
01:15:57,590 --> 01:15:54,570
while ago so I thought I'd basically

1809
01:15:59,720 --> 01:15:57,600
just pinch that idea I initially wrote

1810
01:16:02,150 --> 01:15:59,730
some tarot cards featuring various wound

1811
01:16:04,220 --> 01:16:02,160
merchants then I wrote some quack

1812
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:04,230
Trump's featuring various advocates of

1813
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:06,810
different alternative medical tripe and

1814
01:16:11,210 --> 01:16:09,570
I got an email from jakab Kent and he

1815
01:16:15,050 --> 01:16:11,220
suggested I create another set of cards

1816
01:16:16,870 --> 01:16:15,060
the well-known skeptics so I worked out

1817
01:16:19,460 --> 01:16:16,880
various categories like special power

1818
01:16:21,380 --> 01:16:19,470
weapon of choice and arch nemesis and I

1819
01:16:23,420 --> 01:16:21,390
wrote a short bit about a whole bunch of

1820
01:16:25,940 --> 01:16:23,430
well-known skeptics then I started

1821
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:25,950
trying to mock up some some top trump

1822
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:28,380
cards I originally just used some photos

1823
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:30,210
of famous skeptics that I just done

1824
01:16:33,950 --> 01:16:32,880
harvested from a google image search but

1825
01:16:35,930 --> 01:16:33,960
when I put the cards together they

1826
01:16:37,570 --> 01:16:35,940
didn't seem to look quite right so I

1827
01:16:40,100 --> 01:16:37,580
thought I trying to create some sort of

1828
01:16:41,780 --> 01:16:40,110
unique avatar for each character and I

1829
01:16:43,970 --> 01:16:41,790
was again looking around on the web for

1830
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:43,980
a way of doing that when I stumbled upon

1831
01:16:49,550 --> 01:16:47,330
the Simpson Iser which is basically a

1832
01:16:50,810 --> 01:16:49,560
website that's to promote the simpsons

1833
01:16:53,870 --> 01:16:50,820
movie where you can create your own

1834
01:16:57,620 --> 01:16:53,880
Simpsons based avatar it actually

1835
01:16:59,360 --> 01:16:57,630
produced a very sort of fairly generic

1836
01:17:00,890 --> 01:16:59,370
sort of character slight to fart about

1837
01:17:02,870 --> 01:17:00,900
in Photoshop for quite a bit just to

1838
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:02,880
make the countries to go to it more

1839
01:17:08,060 --> 01:17:05,010
recognizable but I thought they came out

1840
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:08,070
pretty good so i created the cards and I

1841
01:17:12,530 --> 01:17:10,650
loaded them to my blog and once again I

1842
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:12,540
was rather surprised by the by the

1843
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:15,330
response that I've got people like Adam

1844
01:17:20,180 --> 01:17:17,850
Savage Phil Plait and penn & teller and

1845
01:17:21,530 --> 01:17:20,190
darren brown all seem to rather light

1846
01:17:24,490 --> 01:17:21,540
note cards and again they started

1847
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:24,500
tweeting them and sending out the links

1848
01:17:30,230 --> 01:17:28,410
so it all worked out quite well i was

1849
01:17:31,490 --> 01:17:30,240
thinking of producing physical copies of

1850
01:17:33,620 --> 01:17:31,500
the cards i did get quite

1851
01:17:36,710 --> 01:17:33,630
few requests to actually produce some

1852
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:36,720
physical cards but I figured the Fox

1853
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:38,250
corporation might become a little bit

1854
01:17:43,010 --> 01:17:41,130
protective of their Simpsons copyright I

1855
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:43,020
didn't really want to push it too far to

1856
01:17:47,690 --> 01:17:45,090
see what I can get away with so I lifted

1857
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:47,700
it up and then a couple of months ago I

1858
01:17:53,300 --> 01:17:50,850
wrote a parody on it on the dr. Seuss

1859
01:17:55,340 --> 01:17:53,310
ease Cat in the Hat about the planned

1860
01:17:58,730 --> 01:17:55,350
papal visit to the UK which I entitled

1861
01:18:01,280 --> 01:17:58,740
the [\h__\h] in the Hat and I attempted to

1862
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:01,290
illustrate it myself using my own crude

1863
01:18:07,220 --> 01:18:05,010
artistic ability and then after I posted

1864
01:18:09,620 --> 01:18:07,230
that I've got a message on Twitter from

1865
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:09,630
a professional caricature artist a guy

1866
01:18:13,520 --> 01:18:11,760
called Neil Davis who had read that [\h__\h]

1867
01:18:16,220 --> 01:18:13,530
in the Hat and he offered me his

1868
01:18:18,020 --> 01:18:16,230
services for any future blogs and he

1869
01:18:20,740 --> 01:18:18,030
sent me some samples of his of his work

1870
01:18:23,030 --> 01:18:20,750
which was absolutely excellent so I

1871
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:23,040
emailed him straight back and said well

1872
01:18:26,930 --> 01:18:25,050
how about redoing the old top trump

1873
01:18:29,660 --> 01:18:26,940
cards with them some nice original

1874
01:18:31,790 --> 01:18:29,670
caricature joins and he was up for that

1875
01:18:33,440 --> 01:18:31,800
so the skeptic trunk cards now have a

1876
01:18:35,210 --> 01:18:33,450
new format I've rewritten the

1877
01:18:37,310 --> 01:18:35,220
descriptions I've got some excellent new

1878
01:18:38,990 --> 01:18:37,320
original artwork and I've started

1879
01:18:41,060 --> 01:18:39,000
publishing a whole new set of cards

1880
01:18:43,190 --> 01:18:41,070
which I've been uploading daily on to my

1881
01:18:45,290 --> 01:18:43,200
science reasoning critical thinking blog

1882
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:45,300
so I hopefully will keep going until

1883
01:18:51,620 --> 01:18:48,650
we've got the whole set of 50 to 60

1884
01:18:53,690 --> 01:18:51,630
skeptic cards loaded up and hopefully

1885
01:18:56,450 --> 01:18:53,700
this time we won't have any copyright

1886
01:18:58,970 --> 01:18:56,460
issues so there's a desire to actually

1887
01:19:00,800 --> 01:18:58,980
produce a physical copy of the cards we

1888
01:19:02,870 --> 01:19:00,810
might be able to do something about it

1889
01:19:04,820 --> 01:19:02,880
this time and I should really put a plug

1890
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:04,830
in for Neil who is the guy who's doing

1891
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:07,170
the the illustrations for me so please

1892
01:19:14,270 --> 01:19:10,130
do take a look at this website it's ww

1893
01:19:15,980 --> 01:19:14,280
caricature club co uk and if you do like

1894
01:19:18,890 --> 01:19:15,990
these illustrations you can Commission

1895
01:19:20,180 --> 01:19:18,900
your own personalized caricature unless

1896
01:19:22,010 --> 01:19:20,190
you're a well-known skeptic in which

1897
01:19:25,790 --> 01:19:22,020
case he's probably done you already in

1898
01:19:28,820 --> 01:19:25,800
your in my pending file of cards to

1899
01:19:30,620 --> 01:19:28,830
publish on your music review blog which

1900
01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:30,630
is just as detailed as your science

1901
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:32,760
reason and critical thinking blog you've

1902
01:19:37,100 --> 01:19:34,770
written that music should not be

1903
01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:37,110
wallpaper it should be art if it's done

1904
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:39,360
properly like a good book film painting

1905
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:42,210
or sculpture it should rouse us do you

1906
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:44,010
think that there should be more artists

1907
01:19:47,490 --> 01:19:45,370
involved in

1908
01:19:49,620 --> 01:19:47,500
and how could that be encouraged ah

1909
01:19:51,180 --> 01:19:49,630
bless you for mentioning my music blog

1910
01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:51,190
not not many people actually read that

1911
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:52,510
when I get quite a bit of traffic from

1912
01:19:56,130 --> 01:19:54,730
my my science reasoning critical

1913
01:19:58,800 --> 01:19:56,140
thinking blog but no one really reads my

1914
01:20:01,320 --> 01:19:58,810
music blog which is a bit disheartening

1915
01:20:04,170 --> 01:20:01,330
for there you go but yeah I I feel very

1916
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:04,180
passionate about about about music music

1917
01:20:09,750 --> 01:20:06,850
has the power to stir up sort of

1918
01:20:11,850 --> 01:20:09,760
something deep within in fact I suspect

1919
01:20:14,430 --> 01:20:11,860
that that sort of intense religious

1920
01:20:16,290 --> 01:20:14,440
euphoria that is experienced by some

1921
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:16,300
sort of believers as a result of the

1922
01:20:22,290 --> 01:20:19,650
same sort of complex brain activity that

1923
01:20:23,580 --> 01:20:22,300
well it didn't fire for me when I want

1924
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:23,590
to see Billy Graham and constant but

1925
01:20:28,470 --> 01:20:26,110
when I went to my first Pink Floyd gig

1926
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:28,480
it completely blew me away I suspect

1927
01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:31,450
it's the same sort of a neurological

1928
01:20:35,790 --> 01:20:33,670
processes going on there and of course

1929
01:20:39,270 --> 01:20:35,800
if you can combine music and skepticism

1930
01:20:41,430 --> 01:20:39,280
with half the time to mr. Tim Minchin

1931
01:20:45,450 --> 01:20:41,440
then that would be completely awesome

1932
01:20:48,750 --> 01:20:45,460
but my main concern is with the sort of

1933
01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:48,760
musical commercial pop dirge churned out

1934
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:52,000
by Saturday night TV talent shows seems

1935
01:20:56,700 --> 01:20:53,530
to be the sort of musical equivalent of

1936
01:20:58,500 --> 01:20:56,710
fast food you may well dominate the

1937
01:21:01,200 --> 01:20:58,510
market place with its sort of bland and

1938
01:21:03,900 --> 01:21:01,210
easily digestible solace that commercial

1939
01:21:05,670 --> 01:21:03,910
successful formula but I'm rather

1940
01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:05,680
concerned the rear and our kids on this

1941
01:21:10,830 --> 01:21:08,290
junk values won't be able to develop the

1942
01:21:13,530 --> 01:21:10,840
the musical palette that has bought me

1943
01:21:16,170 --> 01:21:13,540
so much pleasure so what's next you have

1944
01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:16,180
future plans for either your artwork or

1945
01:21:20,610 --> 01:21:18,340
your blog well I must admit I do get

1946
01:21:22,140 --> 01:21:20,620
quite a buzz from writing my blog and

1947
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:22,150
especially the cider is in critical

1948
01:21:27,420 --> 01:21:24,970
thinking blog so I just hope that I

1949
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:27,430
continue to get some more hopefully

1950
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:30,010
mildly amusing ideas that I can use to

1951
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:32,170
emphasize the absurdity of things like

1952
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:35,170
homeopathy and weird religious dogmas

1953
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:37,570
and New Age mumbo jumbo and

1954
01:21:42,690 --> 01:21:40,810
pseudoscience and rest assured as soon

1955
01:21:44,850 --> 01:21:42,700
as I can think of a suitable way of

1956
01:21:46,980 --> 01:21:44,860
taking the piss out of them I shall be

1957
01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:46,990
posted on my blog thank you again

1958
01:21:50,340 --> 01:21:48,490
Christian for joining us it's been

1959
01:21:51,690 --> 01:21:50,350
wonderful to hear from you many thanks

1960
01:21:53,490 --> 01:21:51,700
just been a pleasure talking with you

1961
01:21:56,250 --> 01:21:53,500
don't forget to check out his ongoing

1962
01:21:59,160 --> 01:21:56,260
projects you can head to the Crispian

1963
01:22:01,860 --> 01:21:59,170
hyphen Jago dot blogspot

1964
01:22:03,990 --> 01:22:01,870
com site which is called science reason

1965
01:22:06,209 --> 01:22:04,000
and critical thinking to find out more

1966
01:22:08,729 --> 01:22:06,219
about his projects and of course his

1967
01:22:26,310 --> 01:22:08,739
album reviews and much more feature at

1968
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:28,560
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1969
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:30,250
zone and thank you once again to all

1970
01:22:34,500 --> 01:22:32,320
those people who write in and tell me

1971
01:22:36,959 --> 01:22:34,510
what they do while they're listening to

1972
01:22:39,180 --> 01:22:36,969
the skeptic zone the team and I are

1973
01:22:40,830 --> 01:22:39,190
getting a great deal of enjoyment out of

1974
01:22:42,750 --> 01:22:40,840
all the stories we're hearing about what

1975
01:22:45,089 --> 01:22:42,760
people are up to walking the dog walking

1976
01:22:46,770 --> 01:22:45,099
the cat it's really nice to know what

1977
01:22:48,810 --> 01:22:46,780
you're doing while you're listening to

1978
01:22:51,120 --> 01:22:48,820
the skeptic zone especially those people

1979
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:51,130
who listen to us when they're working

1980
01:22:56,220 --> 01:22:53,650
late into the night shift workers and so

1981
01:22:58,919 --> 01:22:56,230
on I'm really glad that we're keeping

1982
01:23:00,870 --> 01:22:58,929
you company so until the next episode

1983
01:23:06,990 --> 01:23:00,880
this is Richard Saunders signing off

1984
01:23:09,390 --> 01:23:07,000
once again from Sydney Australia you've

1985
01:23:13,979 --> 01:23:09,400
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1986
01:23:16,470 --> 01:23:13,989
our website at www skeptics on TV for

1987
01:23:18,899 --> 01:23:16,480
comments contacts and extra video

1988
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:18,909
reports

1989
01:23:30,340 --> 01:23:21,730
the skin